Time to Upgrade

[Blunoze]

Hi guys, I am after some opinions. My acoustic show originally was just myself playing some covers in small bars. So in terms of rig, I have a Voicelive GTX running through an AS50D which has served its purpose well. Especially the notch filter on the AS50D, the Taylor 110CE I play is fitted with the Expression System which is not particularly feedback friendly.

Now my acoustic show is growing, I have a violinist who has joined me, and soon to be a third member playing the Cajon to give a bit of rhythm and spice. The last gig with the violinist showed me that we have outgrown the AS50D, it just doesn't have enough volume anymore so its time to upgrade.

So I am going to need an amp with three channels (Myself, violin and Cajon), and between 100 & 200w of power as we are playing bigger places. So which amp would you recommend with this trio in mind? I am looking at the Jam 150 at the moment, which seems to tick all the boxes but I am concerned about managing the feedback, as it doesn't have any notch filter. Thoughts?

[lschwart]

I'd recommend you not get another combo amp, but buy a good powered 10" or 12" PA speaker and a small mixer. If you're playing larger venues, you'll need something you can put up on a pole to project better out into the room, and you may also find you need monitoring when the volume you need exceeds what's comfortable with the speaker behind you and over your heads (or when it exceeds the feedback threshold). A mixer, which you can place wherever it's handy (rather than attached to the amp, which you might need to place father away), will make it easier for you to control the mix from the stage--and you'll be able to get a better mix. You might still be able to use your AS50D for monitoring (sending it a signal from the Aux send of your mixer). This will also be something you will be able to expand on for larger venues (just add more powered speakers/monitors).

Lots of choices in in this area, but the usual suspects for this kind of set up are the Yamaha DBR and DXR speakers, the RCF 310a or 312a, the QSC K series, the EV lines in the same range, etc. Good mixer choices are the Allen and Heath ZED10FX (or one of the larger ZEDs), the Soundcraft EFX8 or MFXi8. And there are now some very attractive and not too expensive options in small digital mixers (the new Behringer XR mixers have gotten very good reviews, and there's the Mackie DL806, and the new Soundcraft Ui12). Another option might be one of these small mixers and a Bose tower. Less expandable and less cost effective, but they work for small scale acoustic shows for a lot of people.

FWIW, I use an RCF 310a and a ZED10FX for my own acoustic trio, and it can cover a lot of different kinds of small gig with just the one speaker on a pole behind us. I have more 310a's for larger gigs (and for my full band). Also, I've been helping with sound and sometimes running it myself for a variety of acoustic dance bands at a local contra dance, and the house system uses a Mackie DL1608 (the larger version of the 806), and I'm pretty amazed at what these little digital mixers can do. If I were building a small PA for myself right now, I'd be seriously considering one of the ones I've listed above--or one of the more expensive units by Soundcraft, A&H, or QSC.

Anyway, food for thought.....

Louis

[Blunoze]

Thanks for the info Louis! When playing, the AS50D is always on top of a high table, to try and reduce feedback.

Interesting stuff. I already have a 200W PA with a Xenyx Mixer which you are right, would do a great job. And definitely provide more control and flexibility over the mix. But I do like rigs that are portable, I find it a pain to have to de-construct and re-construct the PA rig, as I also use it in the studio for monitoring. The 'plug and play' element of a Combo, including the need for only 15 kilo's of gear with a single handle, is also interesting to me as the bars I play in are often not accessible by road.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by Blunoze

Thanks for the info Louis! When playing, the AS50D is always on top of a high table, to try and reduce feedback.

I have a Genz Benz Shenandoah that would give me feedback issues when I had it on a table. The issues went away when I put it on a speaker pole stand, seven feet in the air. The sound quality improved a lot as well.

As for your question about adding more players to your system, what lschwart wrote is pretty much spot on. Besides the Genz Benz I also have a Zed 10fx mixer and a pair of Yamaha DBR12's. I prefer using the mixer system.

[ricdoug]

Since you specify weight in kilos, are you in Europe? If so, the Carvin AG200 at 11.85kg, 200 watts, 3 channels and speaker stand mountable will meet your stated needs and is available in Europe:

http://www.carvinamplifiers.com/prod...igital-effects

http://www.carvinamplifiers.com/page...rs-dealers-a-m

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Blunoze

Hi guys, I am after some opinions. My acoustic show originally was just myself playing some covers in small bars. So in terms of rig, I have a Voicelive GTX running through an AS50D which has served its purpose well. Especially the notch filter on the AS50D, the Taylor 110CE I play is fitted with the Expression System which is not particularly feedback friendly.

Now my acoustic show is growing, I have a violinist who has joined me, and soon to be a third member playing the Cajon to give a bit of rhythm and spice. The last gig with the violinist showed me that we have outgrown the AS50D, it just doesn't have enough volume anymore so its time to upgrade.

So I am going to need an amp with three channels (Myself, violin and Cajon), and between 100 & 200w of power as we are playing bigger places. So which amp would you recommend with this trio in mind? I am looking at the Jam 150 at the moment, which seems to tick all the boxes but I am concerned about managing the feedback, as it doesn't have any notch filter. Thoughts?

Hi B-noze…

Have you considering asking the other guys to buy their own amps? I've never been in an ensemble where one person has to furnish all the gear for everybody.

If each musician had his/her own gear, then problem is solved, right?

[jonfields45]

I second the recommendation of a small mixer and a single PA speaker high and behind (such that you can hear it as monitor, has the clearance to project to the crowd, but is mostly projecting above your instruments and microphones for feedback resistance). I use a Yamaha DBR10 (23 lbs) speaker and a Yamaha MG06X mixer.

These days none of the reasonably priced mixers have nutted down metal shaft pots. I would avoid the low end Mackie's and other metal case mixers since the extra weight just makes them more likely to shear off a control when they get dropped or hit.

[StevenL]

For larger gigs, a PA is a necessity if you want good sound for 3 or more people. For what you've described, I'm going with two small (10", 12") powered tops, a small powered sub, a crossover, and a Good small mixer, A&H Zed, Soundcraft, etc. And since you're growing, get a mixer with more mic inputs than you need right now. Why the sub? You'd be amazed how much a sub will clean up and punch your sound, even with the limited frequencies below 120 hz with acoustic instruments. But they ARE there and they greatly benefit from being amplified correctly. Yes the cajon will produce some down there.

And I'm a great believer in as much clean power as you can afford. I wouldn't do a medium on up club with less than 1000 watts among the tops and sub. I'm not talking ear-spitting volume either, just nice, fat, distortion-free sound that people can still talk over. And, I'm also of the mind that the spread between two nice tops is one of the major factors for excellent acoustic reproduction. One top just doesn't get if for me.

A PA is, of course, more trouble to fool with than plugging into an amp and playing but if you're planning to make gigging with a band, however small, your thing, it's just part of the job. Organize all your pieces for quick setup and teardown and keep yourself in shape for some lifting. Your audience will thank you and you'll have more pride in your work when you hear your music sounding great all over the room instead of sounding fair within one little beam of sound. It's amazing how inspiring it is to hear your work inside the big sound bubble.

Just one fool's thoughts on the subject.

[martingitdave]

Depending on how loud you need to be, the all-in-one PA systems like the Bose L1 might be a good option. They include 4 inputs with their T1 mixer. Or, you can get the L1 system with your own mixer. It doesn't sound like you have a huge need for heavy PA equipment. But, it also sounds like you need more than a combo amp. That said, the Carvin 3-way system, which is essentially a small PA, on a stand, might also fit the bill.

[IFIFELL]

Line 6 StageSource L2t or L3t, look on You Tube.

[M19]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha Stagepass 600i.

Originally Posted by M19

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha Stagepass 600i.

This is what I have. Love it. Hope it works for you as well.