Why fix a cracked top on cheaper guitar?

[Truckjohn]

1. In general - exposed bare wood tends to pick up trash from the environment and degrade from such much faster than wood with even a thin finish wiped on it.

2. Cracks tend to keep growing and can cause problems with braces popping loose

3. Trash will get into the crack and make it very difficult for someone else to then fix.

4. If you think the guitar is not worth much now - try selling it with an open top crack. It will go from $150 ish (used) to about $30 if you can get that for it.

5. If the guitar is a very good instrument - then fixing it is worthwhile because it's a good instrument.... Even if it is cheap.

That gives you 5 reasons you should fix it

Now - for reasons you should not

1. The repairs done by a competent pro already failed again - which might tell me that the top has some built in stress... And the required next step will be even more expensive.

2. The repairs likely cost over 50% of the value of the instrument, yet add basically zero to the maximum resale value - all the repairs did is to reduce your potential loss... And you aren't done paying for the repair yet.

3. It used money you could have spent to replace the instrument - perhaps with something better

4. It's probably so overbuilt that breaking a couple top braces loose and leaving the top crack may loosen it up to the point that it plays and sounds better.

5. It seems like fixing it bothers you - and makes you resent the thing.

5 reasons for. 5 reasons against.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Your question has been answered: there isn't anything further to say.

Summary:

1. In some circumstances, the tension/stress relief of the crack might improve sound. (Interpretation: don't fix it.)

2. On a $200 guitar, there is little value in having it repaired "as-new": the cost doesn't warrant it. (Interpretation: don't fix it, beyond gluing and cleating crack.)

3. As long as the bracing is still fully attached and there are no other structural issues, it is your choice whether or not to have it repaired. (Interpretation: fix it or not, it doesn't matter - it is largely cosmetic and affects re-sale value, which is not an issue on a $200 guitar.)


If you have issues with a particular shop, take up your issues with that shop. If you chose not to, or aren't satisfied with their response/work, don't continue to use their services.

Thank you so much for that information.

As for the shop, as I said, I have used their services on at least seven electric guitars and all have been excellent to good, a couple small problems which they agreed to adjust. This is the first time they worked on an acoustic and so I will find another shop to work on any of my acoustics. I will take it back to the shop out of my area I think. I go through there once in a while to see a friend. I have already asked the owner to do a setup on my new Alvarez AJ80 jumbo. It came with light-gauge D'Addarios EXP and I would like to put some medium-gauge strings on it, as I have some John Pearse PBs, D'Addario EJ-17s and Elixir Nanowebs available.

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments.

[CaffeinatedOne]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I have already asked the owner to do a setup on my new Alvarez AJ80 jumbo. It came with light-gauge D'Addarios EXP and I would like to put some medium-gauge strings on it. . .

Be careful!

Ask your setup guy for his advice regarding the use of medium strings. If the guitar comes with light gauge strings when new, it may be a mistake to use a heavier gauge. That creates greater stress on the instrument. While a jumbo size guitar may have more robust bracing than a smaller instrument, messing with string gauges can be harmful.

The rule of thumb is always to use specification gauge or lighter; heavier will be at your peril.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedOne

Be careful!

Ask your setup guy for his advice regarding the use of medium strings. If the guitar comes with light gauge strings when new, it may be a mistake to use a heavier gauge. That creates greater stress on the instrument. While a jumbo size guitar may have more robust bracing than a smaller instrument, messing with string gauges can be harmful.

The rule of thumb is always to use specification gauge or lighter; heavier will be at your peril.

I have heard that, but I thought the rule of thumb is for smaller guitars and that most manufacturers, or many especially for the low-end models, ship their guitars with light-gauge strings because many that guage seems to be more popular with the beginning or intermediate players.

However I will send an email to the Alvarez online rep who has always been very helpful (and prompt) in answering my questions about specs, availability,e tc. He was the one who confirmed to me that the AJ80 has been discontinued.

And I've had read online reviews saying the AJ80 actually sounds best with mediums. However, I have to say I really like these D'Addario EXPs 16s and the guitar is plenty loud now. I have mediums on that cracked-top Alvarez AD710 and the jumbo seems louder, but I know the jumbo has new strings and the AD710 strings need changing. Plus I know also it's the perceived difference between the bodies themselves. Such as the AD710 is a bit boomier in bass but the AJ80's mids and highs seem louder.

But I won't be going to this music shop for at least two weeks.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I have heard that, but I thought the rule of thumb is for smaller guitars and that most manufacturers... ship their guitars with light-gauge strings because many that guage seems to be more popular with the beginning or intermediate players.

The choice of string gauge has nothing to do with skill level, per se. I've played for decades and have no reason to use medium gauge strings. Others like them, but I prefer lighter strings.

True, beginners may prefer lighter strings because they are (somewhat) easier on the fingers.

[CaffeinatedOne]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

And I've had read online reviews saying the AJ80 actually sounds best with mediums. .

It's likely to sound quite a bit better, particularly as a jumbo size. But just make sure you are certain what the string specifications are - contacting Alvarez is a good idea. Once you learn the spec, always stay within it.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

The choice of string gauge has nothing to do with skill level, per se. I've played for decades and have no reason to use medium gauge strings. Others like them, but I prefer lighter strings.

True, beginners may prefer lighter strings because they are (somewhat) easier on the fingers.

And I've played for decades and have not liked, in general, light gauge strings, although I do sort of like the so-called "bluegrass" or light-medium gauge (there is a current post on this gauge) because I like the extra thump of the bass on the medium gauge strings. And I'm talking medium gauge on sub $100 guitars up to $1,000-plus guitars.

I've just read somewhere I think that light gauge strings were made for a certain market. That is not to say others will use them. However, when I was a kid back in the 1950s there was no such thing as "light gauge" strings that I could find.

But I don't want to put strings on the AJ80 that could pose a structural problem. I'm still waiting for a response from the Alvarez spokesman. Generally I hear back in an hour or so but it may not be until later today or after the weekend.

[Ralph124C41]

UPDATE:

Well I got an answer back from the Alvarez rep and it is really not what I expected:

"We recommend light gauge strings .012 through .053. If you go heavier you may need a neck adjustment & you will need to keep an eye on the top. Any significant bulging will let you know to go back to lights."

I didn't expect that answer. I was expecting to adjust the neck but now I'm worried when I read words like "bulging" and "keep an eye on the top."

I expected him to say light-gauge strings are recommended but that medium-gauge strings would be OK, too, although an neck adjustment may/would be needed.

So do you folks think I should stick to the light-gauge strings or is the rep just being cautious to avoid the risk of damage to my guitar. I also wonder now if putting on medium- gauge strings would somehow void the limited lifetime warranty I think I have on this thing.

Dang! I really want to put medium-gauge strings on this thing.

[Earl49]

Ralph, that sounds a typically cautious CYA response from the rep. The advice to "keep and eye on the top watch for bulging" and "you may need a neck [truss rod] adjustment" would apply in any event.

And how much warranty protection do you expect for a $200 guitar? In other words, the maximum potential loss for you is the $200 it would take to replace this already cracked guitar, which is no longer worth anywhere near $200 BTW. Shipping to/from a repair center will probably cost more than the replacement cost of the guitar. Cracks caused by low humidity are not covered by warranty anyway. With all due respect, you are way over-thinking all this.

If you want mediums on it, just go ahead. Medium gauge strings (~185 pounds) only add about 20 extra pounds of tension versus light gauge (~165 pounds) when tuned to standard pitch. When mediums are tuned down a whole step, they are almost exactly the same overall tension as lights up to pitch. Tuning down a half step from standard pitch splits the difference.

-----------

From an earlier post, you said that you have taken several electric guitars to this shop and were satisfied by their work. But acoustic guitars are a whole different animal in terms of repair work. Techs that know a lot about replacing pickups and solving wiring issues in electric guitars may not necessarily know much about properly repairing cracked tops.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Ralph, that sounds a typically cautious CYA response from the rep. The advice to "keep and eye on the top watch for bulging" and "you may need a neck [truss rod] adjustment" would apply in any event.

Yes, that is sort of what I thought. I know other people on this or other forums have put mediums on the guitar and reported no problem.

Originally Posted by Earl49

From an earlier post, you said that you have taken several electric guitars to this shop and were satisfied by their work. But acoustic guitars are a whole different animal in terms of repair work. Techs that know a lot about replacing pickups and solving wiring issues in electric guitars may not necessarily know much about properly repairing cracked tops.

Yes I agree with you. In fact I should have added that when I talked to the shop worker about doing a setup for my jumbo he said he would. But when I asked about perhaps lowering the action, if needed, by shaving the bridge he said he really didn't want to get into that. I don't know if that means he isn't comfortable doing that or just doesn't want to take the time because he is very busy with repairs. However, his comment didn't make me feel comfortable with doing any more work on my acoustics.

[Ralph124C41]

Yet another update: This morning got another email from the Alvarez rep and he said Alvarez recommends light-gauge strings on all of its steel-string acoustics.

So I am pretty certain I will put mediums on. If I notice a problem I will either put lights on, more probably, just tune down a half fret to ease the tension.

[CaffeinatedOne]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

If I notice a problem I will either put lights on, more probably, just tune down a half fret to ease the tension.

That's a good idea. Hadn't thought of that.

Taylor uses heavier gauge strings on its Kottke model - tuned down for the same reason.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedOne

That's a good idea. Hadn't thought of that.

Yes, I read a chart somewhere online ... it may be here in this forum ... that shows that , in general, dropping the pitch a half fret comes reasonably close to dropping a gauge in strings.

[Ralph124C41]

Update: The owner of the store offered me $20 off if I agreed to pay for a combined setup and putting in cleats and I agreed. I think it will be a very basic setup because the Alvarez AD710 already seems to be set up fine with good action, sound etc but there maybe something I may have missed. The strings, which I think are Martin medium SPs or something like that, still are pretty good but are getting a little tarnished so he will put on the John Pearse PBs mediums I have been wanting to try.

I have also asked him to see if he has some bridge pins to replace the plastic ones in it now. I know the Alvarez pin holes are a little bigger than on most guitars so I don't know how that will fit. Actually because I bought the guitar used I'm not certain if these are the stock pins or not; they do look a little different.

So I am glad he is willing to work with me in this matter.

[Ralph124C41]

Yet another update: I got my guitar back from the shop yesterday and somehow the price got dropped another $10 or so.

The good: The guitar plays well and the action is lower. Also the lowered price.

The almost bad: The tech didn't restring the guitar with the John Pearse PB strings I provided, although I asked for that. However, the owner admitted he had forgotten to write that on the order so he did it on the spot for free. Good thing I played the guitar and noticed my old strings. I thought they were the JP strings and I quipped unknowingly, "Do these John Pearse string come pre-tarnished?" until the tech guy told me they were my old strings.

The bad: Although I know structurally it is OK but the actual repair cosmetically looks sort of bad I think. There now seems to be a permanent gap where before, with proper humidification, the crack was nearly unnoticeable.

However it is a cheaper guitar and it still plays and sounds great and basically I got a setup AND top crack repair for the cost of the setup alone.