Fretboard and Bridge Wood

[Godfather]

Since this is about a custom build that I am commissioning, I hope it is posted in the right place.

Simple question...Pros and Cons, Ebony vs Brazilian Rosewood for fret board and bridge? I believe the BR bridge will enhance the mids and highs and the BR fret board is more aesthetic than tone. I have discussed it with my luthier, but want to get input from other builders out there.

This will be a GA 12 fret Adi over Wavy Mahogany.

TIA

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by Godfather

Since this is about a custom build that I am commissioning, I hope it is posted in the right place.

Simple question...Pros and Cons, Ebony vs Brazilian Rosewood for fret board and bridge? I believe the BR bridge will enhance the mids and highs and the BR fret board is more aesthetic than tone. I have discussed it with my luthier, but want to get input from other builders out there.

This will be a GA 12 fret Adi over Wavy Mahogany.

TIA

Yeah that’s a simple question but, that certainly doesn’t mean there is a simple answer. I started writing the pros and cons. First with an Ebony fretboard. So there is a whole page of pros and another page of cons. Then I thought about a BRW fretboard and I realized: 1st my answer would be longer than the attention span of most normal people and second the sheer volume of the answer might just be confusing and it also might lead one to believe there are really large differences between the two.
I’d suggest you make an ascetic choice. If you like the black look you can always have the BRW dyed black if you want a little better sound (black Ebony is often dyed black these days anyway)

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

Yeah that’s a simple question but, that certainly doesn’t mean there is a simple answer. I started writing the pros and cons. First with an Ebony fretboard. So there is a whole page of pros and another page of cons. Then I thought about a BRW fretboard and I realized: 1st my answer would be longer than the attention span of most normal people and second the sheer volume of the answer might just be confusing and it also might lead one to believe there are really large differences between the two.
I’d suggest you make an ascetic choice. If you like the black look you can always have the BRW dyed black if you want a little better sound (black Ebony is often dyed black these days anyway)

I really like the look of Brazilian, and it is not as common as ebony these days, so that is cool too. One of my concerns is durability and how well will frets stay in place vs lifting.

[j. Kinnaird]

I try to avoid using ebony for the bridge. I dont think it transmits vibrations as well as the rosewoods. If i want a black bridge i use african Blackwood. For the fingerboard I always user ebony. It looks like business if you get my drift and I like the way it wears and holds frets.

[mercy]

I play a little better with ebony than rosewood fretboard but rosewoods use energy better than ebony, that is except EIR which has high damping. I like the two tone look, I guess I associate it with classical guitars which do the combo often. Lest that be confusing, I play steel string.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Godfather

. I have discussed it with my luthier, but want to get input from other builders out there.
TIA

And if the opinions you get here differ from the opinions of your builder, what will you do?

Steve

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by El Conquistador

And if the opinions you get here differ from the opinions of your builder, what will you do?

Steve

My builder knows the choice is ultimately mine, so I will weigh my options and make a decision.
He will not do anything that would compromise the integrity of his build. Either way, Ebony or Brazilian, he is good with it.

[Kent Chasson]

Brazilian is significantly lighter and lower damping so there are tonal and weight considerations. But those effects can be maximized or minimized depending on the construction. So your builder is in a much better position to know the differences on his/her guitar than any of us trying to generalize.

[Mr Fingers]

Untrue that the fretboard is tonally insignificant. It's never assured that wood in one guitar will yield the results expected based on a vast number of examples, but the generalizations are helpful. Of course, much depends on the nature of the actual piece of wood in hand, since this stuff has become more variable and the availability of ideal material is poor. I find that ebony tends to be a brighter and faster than BR, especially as a fretboard wood.

[Tony Done]

The only fingerboards I have ever had a problem with have been black ebony, one of which was on a custom build. The best for stability, hardness and looks has been macassar ebony, used as a replacement for the original on a '33 L-00 about 25 years ago.

One local luthier opined to me that you don't want to much tonal character in a fretboard, but I chose the macassar and a matching bridge blank on the basis of tap tests covering a range of timbers. It sounded, er, musical. History has proved it to be a good choice in terms of both tone and stability.

[Alan Carruth]

My problem with talking about the tonal aspects of fingerboard choice is that it's so hard to separate out as a variable. You can make two 'identical' guitars from 'the same' wood and end up with as much difference in the sound as you'd get from swapping out the fingerboard wood, so how can you be sure?

At any rate, I'm with J. Kinnaird on fingerboards; I use ebony when a tropical wood is appropriate. On my 'domestic' guitars I usually use persimmon, which is the American ebony, and pretty much like Macassar. It's not black, usually, so I do stain or dye it.

OTOH, the choice between ebony and rosewood for the bridge is clearer. Ebony tends to be a lot denser than rosewood, so, all else equal, it makes a heavier bridge. Given that the bridge is such a significant piece of the top, that alone can make a difference. Usually adding mass to the bridge cuts down on the power of the instrument, but it cuts more from the high end than the low. Thus an ebony bridge doesn't so much 'enhance the bass' as it does 'cut the treble': you end up with a bit less sound that is more 'bass balanced'. Whether you want that depends on the guitar. Larger instruments usually have more bass to begin with, but they can also suffer from 'wolf' issues if the bridge is too light. This is especially true when the top bracing is scalloped, so on a scalloped braced Dread an ebony bridge makes a lot of sense. On a smaller box, with tapered or straight bracing, you might prefer rosewood.

Damping ought to be an important variable, but, again, I don't think anybody has ever sorted it out for certain. There are so many things you can do to mess up the damping of the structure that it's probably moot: as a material property it may set the limit, but to approach that you have to do everything else just right.

[redir]

One of my favorite fretboard woods is Cocobolo. I just love the way it looks. I think BRW is fantastic too. I just think it's more interesting then ebony but that's my personal aesthetic. I do believe necks have an impact on tone but it's hard to say what the fingerboard contributes to that so I always tell people just pick what you like. It's a lot easier that way too

As far as bridges, the very best classical guitar I've built to date has a <gasp> ebony bridge.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I have opinions on these things!

The fingerboard makes so little difference to sound that I have never discerned any. The issues that matter are wear, ability to hold frets, and as a substrate for inlay. Most ebony wins on all counts.

Ebony is something like 33 different species, and they aren't even all black. I have black ebony on hand that is only about 3/4 the weight of typical Brazilian. Not all ebonies sound like cardboard either, though most do. Malaysian Blackwood, while fairly heavy, rings very nicely.

The difference in sound we often attribute to the bridge's wood choice has probably got less to do with the wood's resonance than it has to do with the weight of the bridge itself, regardless of the material. Same thing with bridge pins, by the way.

As I said, ; opinion . . . based on direct experience rather than hearsay.

[Tony Done]

When I chose Macassar, it was dictated at least to some extent by wanting brown to more or less match the reddish stuff it was replacing. (Any idea what the would be on a '33 L-00?) These days, if I wanted black I might well choose richlite in preference to wood of any kind. No kidding. Do the make brown, timber-grained richlite?

[JonWint]

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