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  #16  
Old 01-21-2018, 08:38 AM
big jilm big jilm is offline
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Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
For me it's the low E. If I tune it 'perfectly', then the first song we play (in Key of G) it sounds off. I have to drop the low E down a few cents then it's dead on. I've had this on every guitar I've ever owned.

The B string for me is the indicator of when the strings need to be changed. The B is the first string to go for some reason. All the sudden it just won't stay in tune and it dawns on my it's time to change the strings.

The joke around here during band practice when the guitar is out of tune and I check it is, "It's the B... It's always the B!"
Exactly the same for me. Tune the low E a hair flat, when the B gets on my nerves too much strings get changed.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:50 AM
Tim Mullin Tim Mullin is offline
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Default Tuning the B string .

When you talk about problems “tuning” the B string, I presume you’re referring to fretted notes on that string sounding “off”, even when the open string pitch is perfect. Most players understand that the saddle must be placed back from the nominal scale length, in order to “compensate” for the stretching of the string while fretting, causing the string to go sharp. Clearly the amount of compensation for each string varies, giving rise to the familiar slant on an acoustic saddle.

The amount of compensation required for any particular string is a matter of physics, but includes several variables: string material, core diameter, string weight, string height, scale-length, tuned pitch. (I have a spreadsheet that I use for calculating ideal compensation on both nut and saddle for special instruments like baritones, multi-scale and drop tuning, where there are no rules-of-thumb for saddle location). Even then, the equal spacing between frets means that some fretted notes will never be perfect — this is the nature of a guitar. There are “averaging” approaches to sweeten issues with fret spacing.

So what’s special about the B string on a typical 6 string with standard tuning? Like the e string, the B is unwound, but is thicker and heavier, so requires more compensation, which is done by angling the saddle. But, the wound G string has a smaller core, requiring LESS compensation. The E string has a similar issue, as it requires MORE compensation — although people are generally more tolerant of sharp notes in this frequency range. Trying to fit the ideal compensation points of all 6 strings on a single, angled saddle is impossible if the saddle is only 3/32” wide — and the B string is always the loser, and to a lesser extent the E string also suffers. It is only just possible on a 1/8” saddle, if the saddle placement is exactly correct on the bridge. Some makers address the issue with a split saddle (e.g., George Lowden, Takamine). On my guitars, I’ve gone to a single 3/16” or 5mm saddle, to allow compensation even for drop tunings, 12-strings and the like.

The B string problem is usually identified by fingerstyle players — strong attack with a pick masks the sour fretted sounds. When I have repair clients complaining about their b-string, and the guitar has a 3/32” saddle, the usual fix is to recut the saddle slot and install a wider saddle that can be intonated more accurately. Some don’t like the look of my preferred 3/16” saddles, but no one complains that a 1/8” saddle looks weird.
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Last edited by Tim Mullin; 01-21-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:28 PM
email4eric email4eric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
For me it's the low E. If I tune it 'perfectly', then the first song we play (in Key of G) it sounds off. I have to drop the low E down a few cents then it's dead on. I've had this on every guitar I've ever owned.

The B string for me is the indicator of when the strings need to be changed. The B is the first string to go for some reason. All the sudden it just won't stay in tune and it dawns on my it's time to change the strings.

The joke around here during band practice when the guitar is out of tune and I check it is, "It's the B... It's always the B!"
^^^^
This is my experience as well!
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2018, 04:44 PM
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00Buck 00Buck is offline
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I've been cursing that string since I took up the guitar. I have to tune it a little sharp, unlike the rest of the world, to sound right to my ears. I also have to retune depending on the key I'm playing. Tuning it a little sharp gets ugly if you're playing in D. Sometimes when I'm playing a song I'll think the B is off, only to discover the problem is with the G.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:00 PM
chitz chitz is offline
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I always tune the B 2-4 cents flat. Even with compensated saddles.
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:07 PM
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Hi Charlie…

A compensated saddle is the answer.

I owned a Martin which I had to tune the B string differently for key of E, G and D. Didn't know about compensating saddles in those days. Someone posted a 'stock' compensated saddle a few posts above. Works wonders and requires no extra thinking while tuning.

Nowdays, all my guitars have compensated saddles, and I just tune the same for every key.



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  #22  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:14 PM
CycleBob CycleBob is offline
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Default Tuning the B string .

Yeah, I usually find the B string the least stable (from a tuning point of view—usually going sharp I think) and most prone to pull out of tune with a capo as well.
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  #23  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:08 PM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David MacNeill View Post
+1 for the James Taylor “sweetened” tuning method. It really works for me to tame any acoustic. It’s the ACU preset in all Peterson tuners:

E: -12 cents
A: -10
D: -8
G: -4
B: -6
E: -3


The b string is the one I love to hate as well. I don’t think there is a perfect solution for every key, but I generally end up lowering the B a bit.

The sweetened tuning helps for many chords, but an E chord fingerpicked without deflection would obviously have a 9 cent difference between the outer E’s. I do find it’s worth a couple of seconds to tweak it for some keys.
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  #24  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:32 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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It's the same for everyone.
Compensated saddle helps but doesn't cure.
Something to do with tempered scales or some such.
I NEVER tune my B string to B - I tune it to the D on the3rd fret.

See This :

Hope it helps,

Ol' Andy
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  #25  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:42 PM
Bung Hand Bung Hand is offline
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Thanks a million for your inputs my amigos..
Seems as though I'm not the only one on with B string issues.
There's a lot of things for me to try here.. The fitting of a compensating saddle ( I like this idea) as well as The James Taylor tuning,tuning the B a little bit flat .. a wider saddle to give more scope in getting intonation correct etc.
I have a Kiso Suzuki Three S guitar at a Luthier's at the moment and he's fitting a wider saddle.. It'll be interesting to see where he has the point where the B string sits.
Thanks all ...
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  #26  
Old 01-22-2018, 03:30 AM
N+1 N+1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
It's the same for everyone.
Compensated saddle helps but doesn't cure.
Something to do with tempered scales or some such.
I NEVER tune my B string to B - I tune it to the D on the3rd fret.

[YOUTUBE video]

Hope it helps,

Ol' Andy
Very many thanks - I shall try this. I'd like to say also that I very much enjoyed your company for those 6 minutes. Cheers.
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  #27  
Old 01-22-2018, 04:16 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Originally Posted by N+1 View Post
Very many thanks - I shall try this. I'd like to say also that I very much enjoyed your company for those 6 minutes. Cheers.
Thanks for the kind words N+1.

I have a few other videos on YouTube. Silly Moustache, mostly songs for consideration by my trio/quartet, as I haven't performed solo for sometime - still recovering from an illness.

Stop by some time, see what you think.

Whereabouts in the UK are you? (if not confidential).
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  #28  
Old 01-22-2018, 04:50 AM
Gary in MO Gary in MO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
It's the same for everyone.
Compensated saddle helps but doesn't cure.
Something to do with tempered scales or some such.
I NEVER tune my B string to B - I tune it to the D on the3rd fret.

Hope it helps,

Ol' Andy
Yep - this seems to be the best method for me also. I really got into acoustic guitar a few years ago and I thought something was wrong with my new guitar because of that B string.
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  #29  
Old 01-22-2018, 04:53 AM
gigmaster gigmaster is offline
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That's why they make tuners.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bung Hand View Post
G'day friends,
I've been playing Guitar for many years now and have a pretty good ear .. but .
I have a devil of a time tuning the B string... all the others,no problem.
Any one else have a similar problem ? or have an opinion on why I seem to have this trouble ?
Regards from OZ ... Charlie
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  #30  
Old 01-22-2018, 05:32 AM
Daniel Grenier Daniel Grenier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David MacNeill View Post
+1 for the James Taylor “sweetened” tuning method. It really works for me to tame any acoustic. It’s the ACU preset in all Peterson tuners:

E: -12 cents
A: -10
D: -8
G: -4
B: -6
E: -3
+1 on this. There are free tuner apps out there with cents capability. Try it. It really works and check out James Taylor’s YouTube video explaining this method.
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