The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 08-01-2013, 08:28 AM
stratokatsu's Avatar
stratokatsu stratokatsu is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 8,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alnico5 View Post
Why are there no discussions about the effect of the pick guard material on tone?
Everybody knows it's not the pickguard material that matters. It's the COLOR that makes a difference!!!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-01-2013, 08:39 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,678
Default

....for the record theres a solid maple center block running through a 335 that the pickups are routed into....anyone who has spent much time moving parts around on electrics and or building them knows that there are definite differences in the sound of the instruments depending on design, construction, details, wood selection and electronics....yes a P-90 will almost always sound like a P-90 but no question it will sound different in
different guitars....sometimes a little different sometimes a lot....its because the sound of the string itself changes...the pickup is amplifying the sound of the strings....
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-01-2013, 10:34 AM
alnico5 alnico5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,110
Default

Yes. I have owned a 330 with no maple center block and a 335 with the center block. I played the 335 through a Twin with JBLs and it could be like an ice pick through the eardrum. All points are well taken. My bottom line from experience and limited knowledge of physics leads me in the direction that wood is a minor contributor to tone.

I had an interesting experience once with PU wiring. I split a HB with the coil nearest the bridge on in single coil mode. Then I reversed it to make the other coil active but didn't like it and switched it back. It never sounded the same. There is no physical explanation I can accept so I'm putting it down to my psychological response. The point I'm making is we can't ignore those kind of factors. What we think we hear or want to hear can be what we do hear.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-01-2013, 12:25 PM
Garthman Garthman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alnico5 View Post
. . . . . so I'm putting it down to my psychological response. The point I'm making is we can't ignore those kind of factors. What we think we hear or want to hear can be what we do hear.
Yes, I agree. People read the stupid sales hype nonsense that is put out by the sellers (the "dark" tones of this wood and the "bright" tones of that wood etc etc - crap!) and psychology takes over.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-01-2013, 12:30 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Posts: 4,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
Yes, I agree. People read the stupid sales hype nonsense that is put out by the sellers (the "dark" tones of this wood and the "bright" tones of that wood etc etc - crap!) and psychology takes over.
Does this mean my Eric Johnson Signature Stratocaster will NOT make me play and sound like Eric Johnson????
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-01-2013, 02:51 PM
mikealpine's Avatar
mikealpine mikealpine is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,107
Default

I read somewhere that there was a mixup at the factory with pickups going in backwards and the Eric Johnson Strat makes some people sound like John Ericson. Only he was a famous accordion player, so the tones are...different.
__________________
---------------------------------------

2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW
2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2
2017 Rainsong BI-WS1000N2
2013 Chris Ensor Concert - Port Orford Cedar/Wenge
1980ish Takamine EF363 complete with irreplaceable memories
A bunch of electrics (too many!!)
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-01-2013, 02:54 PM
stratokatsu's Avatar
stratokatsu stratokatsu is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 8,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I read somewhere that there was a mixup at the factory with pickups going in backwards and the Eric Johnson Strat makes some people sound like John Ericson. Only he was a famous accordion player, so the tones are...different.
That would still be an improvement for my playing... Wonder if they sold out yet?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-01-2013, 02:59 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Posts: 4,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I read somewhere that there was a mixup at the factory with pickups going in backwards and the Eric Johnson Strat makes some people sound like John Ericson. Only he was a famous accordion player, so the tones are...different.
Good humor!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-01-2013, 03:54 PM
mikealpine's Avatar
mikealpine mikealpine is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 6,107
Default

Thanks Russ!

And it would improve my playing as well!!
__________________
---------------------------------------

2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW
2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2
2017 Rainsong BI-WS1000N2
2013 Chris Ensor Concert - Port Orford Cedar/Wenge
1980ish Takamine EF363 complete with irreplaceable memories
A bunch of electrics (too many!!)
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-02-2013, 06:26 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
Yes, I agree. People read the stupid sales hype nonsense that is put out by the sellers (the "dark" tones of this wood and the "bright" tones of that wood etc etc - crap!) and psychology takes over.
While I do believe that psychology plays a part in the whole tone game, there ARE differnces in how woods can affect the general tone and feel of an electric guitar. The pickups merely amplify that. To categorize it as "stupid sales hype" is a bit unfair. You can definitely hear a difference between a Les Paul Custom with its maple cap, and a Les Paul Studio, with its all mahogany construction. There's a very noticeable difference between an all maple Strat and a basswood Strat.

Now granted, these differrences are not as significant when you have teh gain on 10 and running a distortion pedal, but I know that each guitar will have a different response and feel.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-02-2013, 08:09 PM
alnico5 alnico5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,110
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
While I do believe that psychology plays a part in the whole tone game, there ARE differnces in how woods can affect the general tone and feel of an electric guitar. The pickups merely amplify that. To categorize it as "stupid sales hype" is a bit unfair. You can definitely hear a difference between a Les Paul Custom with its maple cap, and a Les Paul Studio, with its all mahogany construction. There's a very noticeable difference between an all maple Strat and a basswood Strat.

Now granted, these differrences are not as significant when you have teh gain on 10 and running a distortion pedal, but I know that each guitar will have a different response and feel.
Your observations are just as valid as any and I think I also would hear a difference between the guitars you mentioned BUT: put 'em behind a curtain and have 10 knowledgeable guitarists listen and reliably pick out the maple topped LP. That is the scientific method. You stated "but I know that each guitar will have a different response and feel". You are already biased. (No offense meant!) I am also biased because I've been told for years that a maple cap brightens the guitar and "everybody knows that".

As for the wood affecting the vibration of a string in a magnetic field? Originally solid body electric guitars were of value because the strings were dampened to decrease feedback. I'm interested in hearing how the wood affects the string vibration, adding or subtracting something to the electrons headed down the wire to the amp - and I don't mean that in smarty pants way!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Garthman Garthman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
While I do believe that psychology plays a part in the whole tone game, there ARE differnces in how woods can affect the general tone and feel of an electric guitar. The pickups merely amplify that. To categorize it as "stupid sales hype" is a bit unfair. . . . .
No. The pick ups absolutely do not amplify the overall sound of an electric guitar. In fact the pick ups do not "amplify" anything. What they do is convert the mechanical force of the vibration of the string into a very weak electric current (the scientific principle is known as electromagnetic induction and you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction) and that current is amplified by the amplifier.

For some reason many people believe that the differences in sound of electric guitars that are played "acoustically", viz. unplugged (and there are differences in this case since the shape, construction and material composition of the body does influence the way in which air molecules are caused to vibrate and the human ear can detect that difference - that, of course, that is how an acoustic guitar works) are reproduced by the pick up. But that is not so - a pick up can't detect vibrating air molecules - it works by a completely different principle.

Oh and BTW, what you hear when you play a plugged in electric guitar is the loudspeaker of the amplifier not the guitar itself.

And I'm afraid it is stupid sales hype.

Last edited by Garthman; 08-03-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:48 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Posts: 4,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthman View Post

Oh and BTW, what you hear when you play a plugged in electric guitar is the loudspeaker of the amplifier not the guitar itself.

And I'm afraid it is stupid sales hype.
This is a bit of an overstatement IMO. What you hear when you hear an electric guitar plugged in is a combination of strings, pickups, amp AND speaker. It is a sum of all the components in the signal chain from the vibrating string thru the speaker. Wood has VERY little to do with this sum, but it is there. IF the speaker were the determinant factor, you would have to include the amp's output transformer as inseparable from it.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:24 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alnico5 View Post
Your observations are just as valid as any and I think I also would hear a difference between the guitars you mentioned BUT: put 'em behind a curtain and have 10 knowledgeable guitarists listen and reliably pick out the maple topped LP. That is the scientific method. You stated "but I know that each guitar will have a different response and feel". You are already biased. (No offense meant!) I am also biased because I've been told for years that a maple cap brightens the guitar and "everybody knows that".

As for the wood affecting the vibration of a string in a magnetic field? Originally solid body electric guitars were of value because the strings were dampened to decrease feedback. I'm interested in hearing how the wood affects the string vibration, adding or subtracting something to the electrons headed down the wire to the amp - and I don't mean that in smarty pants way!
I know because I've owned and played both. An LP custom has a maple top even though it is painted black, the studio does not. This affects the way the strings vibrate and feel under the fingers, and to mee the way they sound. I've played the zakk wylde model which has a maple neck and the difference is very noticeable...

I've also owned some cheap plywood electrics and they never sounded good regardless of the pickups I installed.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:35 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
No. The pick ups absolutely do not amplify the overall sound of an electric guitar. In fact the pick ups do not "amplify" anything. What they do is convert the mechanical force of the vibration of the string into a very weak electric current (the scientific principle is known as electromagnetic induction and you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction) and that current is amplified by the amplifier.

For some reason many people believe that the differences in sound of electric guitars that are played "acoustically", viz. unplugged (and there are differences in this case since the shape, construction and material composition of the body does influence the way in which air molecules are caused to vibrate and the human ear can detect that difference - that, of course, that is how an acoustic guitar works) are reproduced by the pick up. But that is not so - a pick up can't detect vibrating air molecules - it works by a completely different principle.

Oh and BTW, what you hear when you play a plugged in electric guitar is the loudspeaker of the amplifier not the guitar itself.

And I'm afraid it is stupid sales hype.
I know how pickups work but didn't want to get into a dissertation since that's not what the topic is about. The strings will have an attack, swell, sustain, and decay and the woods will play a role as to how much of each, regardless of pickup. A guitar of balsa may sustain less than maple, which may sustain less than steel.

So then the pickups will "read" these different vibrations which are then amplified by the amplifier and converted to air movement via speaker cone. The output will be different, and its pretty simple to show this using any recording software.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=