where is that natural reverb coming from, anyway? (A Bob Womack question)

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Great observations and tips! Thanks so much. I think I will go ahead and do the cloud. I had a hard time finding 703 in my area last time I called around but will hunt some more.

One question: I currently sit on a small wooden platform that floats atop the carpet. I added that element to get a little more crispness...do you think with the ceiling treatment that should go?

Put one of your nearfield monitors in the same chair that you will be sitting when recording your guitar. Play test tones (lots of them) through that monitor only (not the other one). Play them at a volume which is slightly less than the level of your guitar. Using your ears, kneel down, stand up, etc. and listen to each test tone at the places where you intend to place your microphones. Point one ear at the source and put your finger in your other ear (emulates on axis response). Then release the finger and listen by looking directly at the source (emulates off axis response side to side). Turn you head 90 degrees (emulates off axis response top to bottom). Notate what happens to each test tone at the two locations for each potential mic placement, i.e., louder, softer, same.

This set of tests will tell you what relative amplitudes the mics will be hearing for the test tone frequencies. If the results are fairly even, you're good. If they are all over the place, you've got work to do.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Great observations and tips! Thanks so much. I think I will go ahead and do the cloud. I had a hard time finding 703 in my area last time I called around but will hunt some more.

One question: I currently sit on a small wooden platform that floats atop the carpet. I added that element to get a little more crispness...do you think with the ceiling treatment that should go?

No - leave the wood platform when you get the cloud installed. Carpet does weird things to the mid-range. Carpets tend to absorb highs & high-mids leaving lows & low-mids behind. it's very unflattering. Good call on the wood platform.

I once ordered some OC703 from an online store - insulation world or insulation planet...something like that. We had to order tons of it when we built the studio. They had a good price, and the closest "local" dealer was a 2 hour drive (one way). I don't know if that helps.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Great observations and tips! Thanks so much. I think I will go ahead and do the cloud. I had a hard time finding 703 in my area last time I called around but will hunt some more.

I'd be tempted these days to just buy panels from GIK or AST. By the time you cover them and build forms, I'm not sure the cost is that much more, and your lungs will thank you for not messing with the raw fiberglass. AST also sells 703 for what looks like the same price range as I found them from a local supplier.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--DIY...ials--102.html
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

When I needed more panels for my studio, I used "Acoustic Cotton", which was so much nicer to work with. Can't recall where I found it, tho, and it was more expensive.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'd be tempted these days to just buy panels from GIK or AST. By the time you cover them and build forms, I'm not sure the cost is that much more, and your lungs will thank you for not messing with the raw fiberglass. AST also sells 703 for what looks like the same price range as I found them from a local supplier.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--DIY...ials--102.html
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

When I needed more panels for my studio, I used "Acoustic Cotton", which was so much nicer to work with. Can't recall where I found it, tho, and it was more expensive.

The mineral wool ATS panels work as well as the fiberglass and perhaps have less fiber inhalation worries.

Also the ATS FAQ page is worth a read http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Ac...FAQs--faq.html

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'd be tempted these days to just buy panels from GIK or AST. By the time you cover them and build forms, I'm not sure the cost is that much more, and your lungs will thank you for not messing with the raw fiberglass. AST also sells 703 for what looks like the same price range as I found them from a local supplier.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--DIY...ials--102.html
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

When I needed more panels for my studio, I used "Acoustic Cotton", which was so much nicer to work with. Can't recall where I found it, tho, and it was more expensive.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The mineral wool ATS panels work as well as the fiberglass and perhaps have less fiber inhalation worries.

Also the ATS FAQ page is worth a read http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Ac...FAQs--faq.html

According to this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-...rs-review.html

there is no evidence of inhalation risks from fiberglass.

I was surprised at how well controlled the fibers were on the OC703 I worked with. I used gloves but no other protection was needed.

Frameless panels are quick, easy, and relatively cheap to build if a reasonable local source of OC703 (or equivalent) is found. I did a blog post showing a simple build.

Frameless panels are easy to hang as a ceiling cloud and I think ceiling coverage was very important in improving my room.

Fran

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

there is no evidence of inhalation risks from fiberglass.

I hope that's true :-) Possibly no actual medical harm, but I know I was hacking and coughing the entire two weeks I spent working with the stuff,and I used a mask. I think putting it up in my ceiling was the worst part, as there was a lot of handling of the stuff, overhead, up on a ladder, with the fibers falling down on me. Maybe I got stuff that shed more than normal!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I hope that's true :-) Possibly no actual medical harm, but I know I was hacking and coughing the entire two weeks I spent working with the stuff,and I used a mask. I think putting it up in my ceiling was the worst part, as there was a lot of handling of the stuff, overhead, up on a ladder, with the fibers falling down on me. Maybe I got stuff that shed more than normal!

Not shown to have long term effects but like any particulates can cause lung and throat irritation and aggravate symptoms in those having pulmonary disease and asthma. Caution advised with all these materials.

[zenpicker]

I think you convinced me to buy, not build......

[dmoss74]

if you don't mind some miking suggestions, i'd pull the mic back a bit. i can hear your hand moving along the neck (gloss, right?) and to me that is a distraction. and are you playing bare thumb, but with picks on your fingers? just curious.

if i had to guess, i'd say you had the mic pointed at the neck/body joint, and fairly close. maybe back it up a little, or move the mic post sound hole (in the rear) and skim it back across the body.

don't get me wrong. i don't think it sounds bad, in fact it sounds good; but you are asking for reverb help, so i thought i'd add a mic placement point as well.

cheers

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by dmoss74

if you don't mind some miking suggestions, i'd pull the mic back a bit. i can hear your hand moving along the neck (gloss, right?) and to me that is a distraction. and are you playing bare thumb, but with picks on your fingers? just curious.

if i had to guess, i'd say you had the mic pointed at the neck/body joint, and fairly close. maybe back it up a little, or move the mic post sound hole (in the rear) and skim it back across the body.

don't get me wrong. i don't think it sounds bad, in fact it sounds good; but you are asking for reverb help, so i thought i'd add a mic placement point as well.

cheers

Agree totally with you - it was definitely too close. These mikes are new for me (Peluso P28s) and they're noticeably hotter that my old Oktavas. The configuration is exactly as you recommended, though - with the addition that a third mike, a large diaphragm tube condenser, is also in the mix at a very low level. That one was set back in front of the guitar at about 18", so it's picking up some room too.

Thanks for the suggestions - will be pushing those mikes back next time around!

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I hope that's true :-) Possibly no actual medical harm, but I know I was hacking and coughing the entire two weeks I spent working with the stuff,and I used a mask. I think putting it up in my ceiling was the worst part, as there was a lot of handling of the stuff, overhead, up on a ladder, with the fibers falling down on me. Maybe I got stuff that shed more than normal!

I gotta admit I never put myself in that position. Sounds gruesome!!

I would recommend wrapping before installing overhead.

Fran

[Brent Hutto]

As a listener to solo guitar music I tend to prefer undamped open strings, open tunings and miscellaneous sympathetic overtones to a choppier playing style covered up by real or post-processed reverb. So you're pretty much on the mark to my ears.

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I have a few of these mounted on the ceiling
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--AT...8x2--1001.html

Plus I have a number of 4" ones on the wall. The floor is carpeted however and I hope to put in a wood floor eventually.

After I installed the panels I ran an air purifier for a few days.

Rick, what kind of gap do you have between panel and ceiling? I saw a comment elsewhere that the gap should equal the thickness of the panel, which means I would lose 4" of ceiling height in an already low ceiling.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Rick, what kind of gap do you have between panel and ceiling? I saw a comment elsewhere that the gap should equal the thickness of the panel, which means I would lose 4" of ceiling height in an already low ceiling.

The 2" thick panels are suspended via togle bolts, wire and panel hooks an average distance of 1.25 to 1.50" from the ceiling. Looks pretty decent with the five panels I have up there. The ceiling is 7' 10" high.

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The 2" thick panels are suspended via togle bolts, wire and panel hooks an average distance of 1.25 to 1.50" from the ceiling. Looks pretty decent with the five panels I have up there. The ceiling is 7' 10" high.

Thanks Rick