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  #1  
Old 01-27-2017, 02:04 PM
TOCS TOCS is offline
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Default Trance Audio and third-party preamps

Does anyone have any experience using their Acoustic Lens pickup with other preamps than the internal ones that are supplied with their systems?

Right now I'm testing the pickup passively into an audio interface, it sounds fine if you crank up the gain a good bit, but I'm wondering if someone has toyed around with some external preamps that work well with the it.

The reason I'm asking is I'd like to see if it's possible to avoid having too much stuffed inside my guitar, and I know Trance used to supply a mono version of their Inducer preamp (which they no longer build or sell), so I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with this?
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:03 AM
se7ent7 se7ent7 is offline
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Consider the Dazzo, very similar pickup that doens't need a specific pre-amp. Also Trance now makes a phantom version of the Amulet M, so no battery at least...
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by se7ent7 View Post
Consider the Dazzo, very similar pickup that doens't need a specific pre-amp. Also Trance now makes a phantom version of the Amulet M, so no battery at least...
I've thought about it. But since the Acoustic Lens is so similar to the FRAP, I wonder what FRAP users do if they don't have access to a FRAP preamp.

I'm going to test the Acoustic Lens with a Schatten preamp later today to see if it works well.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:38 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by TOCS View Post
I've thought about it. But since the Acoustic Lens is so similar to the FRAP, I wonder what FRAP users do if they don't have access to a FRAP preamp.

I'm going to test the Acoustic Lens with a Schatten preamp later today to see if it works well.
According to Gary Hull, the internal structuring of a Trance Amulet Lens is more involved than the old FRAP design, and it senses vibrations in more planes. The output of an Amulet lens isn't very high and the audiophile-grade Trance Amulet onboard preamp is designed to take this into account. It's likely best to just use the lightweight internal Trance preamp that comes with the systems but contacting Gary Hull at Trance Audio will surely address your questions.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:48 AM
TOCS TOCS is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
According to Gary Hull, the internal structuring of a Trance Amulet Lens is more involved than the old FRAP design, and it senses vibrations in more planes. The output of an Amulet lens isn't very high and the audiophile-grade Trance Amulet onboard preamp is designed to take this into account. It's likely best to just use the lightweight internal Trance preamp that comes with the systems but contacting Gary Hull at Trance Audio will surely address your questions.
From what I can gather, both pickups use three ceramic or crystalline piezoelectric transducers orthogonally mounted on three of the walls of a small box-shaped enclosure filled with silicone rubber. Which in turn, makes them sense vibration triaxially. Both pickups are very low in output has extremely high Z input. In the end, it's mostly about matching the impedance and boosting the signal accordingly. And the internal preamps Trance Audio makes definitely does that just fine, I just prefer external preamps.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:01 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by TOCS View Post
From what I can gather, both pickups use three ceramic or crystalline piezoelectric transducers orthogonally mounted on three of the walls of a small box-shaped enclosure filled with silicone rubber. Which in turn, makes them sense vibration triaxially. Both pickups are very low in output has extremely high Z input. In the end, it's mostly about matching the impedance and boosting the signal accordingly. And the internal preamps Trance Audio makes definitely does that just fine, I just prefer external preamps.
Gary Hull told me there are more than just three planes of sensors in the Amulet. I didn't ask him why he felt it necessary to add more than three planes of sensors. Maybe he will come on here and explain?

Likely the problem in running just the low-output signal of the Amulets out to an external preamp is that you risk adding a lot of electrical interference from various sources which would degrade the signal. I guess I missed how you ended up with the Trance Amulet transducers. I'm assuming you bought a complete Trance system and are trying to make the two Amulets work with an external preamp, and, as you mentioned, to minimize internal components in your guitar? There should be a way to run the Amulets out of the guitar to the Trance preamp. You can power the preamp from the battery but you would have to solder the Amulet leads to a stereo endpin guitar jack, and then modify a stereo guitar cord so it has two smaller plugs on the preamp ends, or use an adapter with a stereo plug to two-mono jacks to two mono guitar cords that have the smaller plugs on the ends to insert into the now external Trance preamp.

I think the Trance Amulet systems are fine as is, and should be used as is. If a prospective buyer knows what the system is comprised of, and doesn't like something about its makeup, they probably shouldn't buy it, but consider something else. There's nothing wrong with experimenting as long as it doesn't hurt anything and I give you credit for trying to satisfy your goal! If you succeed with good results, it may compel others to follow your lead.
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Last edited by SpruceTop; 02-11-2017 at 08:25 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2017, 12:17 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Originally Posted by se7ent7 View Post
Consider the Dazzo, very similar pickup that doens't need a specific pre-amp. Also Trance now makes a phantom version of the Amulet M, so no battery at least...
This. The endjack preamp (attached to the endblock, and not touching the back, sides or top of the guitar) is connected to the lenses and that's it.
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  #8  
Old 02-11-2017, 03:58 AM
TOCS TOCS is offline
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So far I've obtained great results running the pickup through a Schatten preamp. Sounds crisp, no noise and I get all the highs I want.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:21 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by TOCS View Post
So far I've obtained great results running the pickup through a Schatten preamp. Sounds crisp, no noise and I get all the highs I want.
How long a guitar cord are you using to transfer the Amulet signals from the guitar to the external Schatten Design preamp? Just as with K&K or Dazzos, I'd think the cord length should be kept at 10 feet or less (3 meters or less) for the Trance Amulet signals.

Maybe Trance Audio should start selling a pair of Trance Amulets as a pickup-only alternative to K&K and Dazzo? Trance could even design and market a standalone, external preamp for the Amulets, and as an alternative preamp for other pickups such as K&K, Dazzo, and JJB.

Is this the Schatten preamp you're using? http://schattendesign.com/mini-pre.htm

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Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
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Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
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Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2

Last edited by SpruceTop; 02-11-2017 at 08:27 AM.
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2017, 09:14 AM
TOCS TOCS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
How long a guitar cord are you using to transfer the Amulet signals from the guitar to the external Schatten Design preamp? Just as with K&K or Dazzos, I'd think the cord length should be kept at 10 feet or less (3 meters or less) for the Trance Amulet signals.

Maybe Trance Audio should start selling a pair of Trance Amulets as a pickup-only alternative to K&K and Dazzo? Trance could even design and market a standalone, external preamp for the Amulets, and as an alternative preamp for other pickups such as K&K, Dazzo, and JJB.

Is this the Schatten preamp you're using? http://schattendesign.com/mini-pre.htm

The pickup goes from the treble side of the strings to a shielded Switchcraft endpin and then through about a 3 meter cord before entering the input of the Schatten preamp you linked.

Trance Audio used to offer a mono version of their Inducer system (which is now made specifically with SFX people in mind), which consisted of one Acoustic Lens and an external preamp very similar to the one I just bought from Schatten. They also used to offer a manual for it: http://web.archive.org/web/200406021...cer-Manual.pdf
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