The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:33 PM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default Zoom Q3 vs Kodak Zi8/Sony ECM-DS70P mic

Hi guys,
Does anybody know anything about this matter?

I'm trying to find oun the pros/cons between these 2 videos to a straight upload my vocal/acoustic guitar to YouTube.

First one is Zoom Q3 that I've heard about the good audio part but not-too-good video part,
Then I've heard and saw some reviews on Web about Kodak Zi8 pocket video cam with the external Sony ECM-DS70P electret condenser mic and began to wonder how good it is compare to straight Zoom Q3?

Anyone wants to kindly chime in or offer any opinions? I'd appreciate all the inputs either good or bad or whatever.
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,712
Default

There are two issues - video resolution and mic input.

YouTube accepts and displays lightweight HD, and giving them video at lower resolution results in lower quality when your clips are played back. The Q3 records in SD at 640x480 pixels, so your videos will be second class citizens on YouTube. This can be tweaked if you use editing software to do post production on your video, but if you're doing direct uploads you have no options.

The Kodak Zi8 records in a couple of HD resolutions as well as SD, so your vids will get first class treatment at YouTube and look much better.

However, if you use the Kodak direct upload function you will sacrifice quality (their software needs badly to be updated). So for best results copy the file from the Zi8 memory card to your computer and upload using your web browser and the standard YouTube upload process. Do not use the included MediaImpressions software or other tools for your YouTube transfers.

On the audio side, the most important thing in recording (assuming a marginal level of quality in the signal chain) is mic placement. Since the Q3 has the mics at the same position as the camera, the mic cannot be optimally placed. The camera needs to be three to five feet from the subject, the mic needs to be around 18" or less.

With the Zi8 and an external mic and extender cable you can frame the subject just as you like and still place the mic optimally.

So for both video and audio quality, I believe the Zi8/mic combo is a better choice.

All this with the proviso that I have not used the Q3, only studied its specifications and observed other people's recordings.

Fran
__________________
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com
My YouTube clips
The Homebrewed Music Blog
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:51 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
...or both video and audio quality, I believe the Zi8/mic combo is a better choice.
Hi Fran…
Agreed.

Your recordings using the H2 as the ''mic'' led me in that direction as well.

__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:12 AM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default Kodak Zi8 with external mic Sony ECM-DS70P?

Hi Fran and Larry,

Thanks so much Fran for your opinion, very helpful.

I'm leaning on Kodak Zi8 but also will try with Sony ECM-DS70P that I've researched on the Web.

Sony ECM is pretty cheap but impressed me on those testing at YouTube and such. So if it's not working as I expect then it's well worth the price anyway.

I'm also aware of the Fake Chinese made Sony but I just have no clue how to get the real one so I guess I'll get the one at Amazon and see how it goes.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate your help.

Anybody else wants to chime in? I'll give myself about another 4 weeks before jumping in
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:10 AM
SimplyLuo SimplyLuo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 936
Default

I think Zi8 and the sony mic is the way to go. Fran's right - with the Q3, you have limited mobility of the mic. You have to place it where the camera likes it, not where the mic would sound the best. You'd get higher quality video with the Zi8 anyway
I'm probably going to go the same route, Zi8 with a mic
__________________
Jon Luo
www.youtube.com/simplyluo
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:00 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 8,123
Default

i bought the kodak zi8 due to the reviews here and comparing the specs of the two cameras. i have not tried the external mic situation yet but i have some good quality mics that i will use to record directly(meaning no adapter into the camera) into final cut express.
until i try that method i have to say i am quite impressed with the built in mic. it lets you know that your audio can sound even better with an external one, though.
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-08-2010, 09:51 PM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muscmp View Post
i have some good quality mics that i will use to record directly(meaning no adapter into the camera) into final cut express.

Hi Musc,I also have some of those mic with XLR, would you kindly elaborate the "No adpter into the camera for me" I'm kind of confuse.

i am quite impressed with the built in mic. .
Are you talking about vocal here? or guitar? or both?
Thanks, I'm coming back to read your respond.
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2010, 01:29 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 8,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by napman View Post
Are you talking about vocal here? or guitar? or both?
Thanks, I'm coming back to read your respond.
yes as the simple answer. depending upon what you are doing, meaning, just playing guitar or singing and playing.

if you have an audio/video recording application such as final cut, final cut express,(for the mac), or premier or vegas( i believe) for the pc, you will be able to record your playing and singing onto your hard drive and edit the audio and video separately through that application. this requires that you have an audio interface to connect the mic(s) into. your final product then becomes excellent audio attached to the video.

i hope this answers your question. if not, let me know.
mikeB.
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:05 PM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default

Thanks again, Musc,
I thought about sync the guitar and vocal a while back but then too lazy to do that.
So now I just want to take an easy way out by straight recording both at the same time.

I have MXL 4000 mic too. I might try to see if I can somehow get that MXL ( with XLR jacks) to work with Kodak Zi8 (that has 1/8" mic input) before I spend little more money for Sony ECM-DS70P but of course I have to get Kodak Zi8 first. The bad part is as far as I know of at Amazon the Kodak (at $179) still not in stock yet!

So I'm playing a waiting game for now, no hurry though.
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:37 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 8,123
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by napman View Post
Thanks again, Musc,
I thought about sync the guitar and vocal a while back but then too lazy to do that.
So now I just want to take an easy way out by straight recording both at the same time.

I have MXL 4000 mic too. I might try to see if I can somehow get that MXL ( with XLR jacks) to work with Kodak Zi8 (that has 1/8" mic input) before I spend little more money for Sony ECM-DS70P but of course I have to get Kodak Zi8 first. The bad part is as far as I know of at Amazon the Kodak (at $179) still not in stock yet!

So I'm playing a waiting game for now, no hurry though.
you'll get a higher quality sound if you record separately and it really isn't that difficult to sync one audio track to another or audio to video. basically, zoom in and drag it to the appropriate place.

as far as price, i got mine for $150 at target. you'll probably want a decent carrying case and at least a 4 gb. sdhc memory card. if you see those on sale at the same time, get them. if not, you can probably find them cheaper online. google the kodak and see what you come up with. as more companies come out with a similar product the price should come down. at least until the zi8a comes out


good luck.
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics

Last edited by muscmp; 02-09-2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-10-2010, 01:05 AM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default

Thanks so much Musc,

You're so helpful, I'll check it out at those Target..etc when I get back home, I'm now in Thailand for 3 month vacation but will be back in States by this Feb. 23rd.
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-10-2010, 12:34 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by napman View Post
Thanks again, Musc,
I thought about sync the guitar and vocal a while back but then too lazy to do that.
So now I just want to take an easy way out by straight recording both at the same time.

I have MXL 4000 mic too. I might try to see if I can somehow get that MXL ( with XLR jacks) to work with Kodak Zi8 (that has 1/8" mic input) before I spend little more money for Sony ECM-DS70P but of course I have to get Kodak Zi8 first. The bad part is as far as I know of at Amazon the Kodak (at $179) still not in stock yet!

So I'm playing a waiting game for now, no hurry though.
The MXL 4000 is condenser, right? It requires phantom power to operate, so you need either a preamp or a phantom power source.

The input on the Zi8 is stereo mic, so the mono output of your MXL will need to be duplicated to two channels (or your video will only have sound on one side) and adjusted to match the expected level in the Zi8.

Fran
__________________
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com
My YouTube clips
The Homebrewed Music Blog
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-10-2010, 08:20 PM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
The MXL 4000 is condenser, right? It requires phantom power to operate, so you need either a preamp or a phantom power source.

The input on the Zi8 is stereo mic, so the mono output of your MXL will need to be duplicated to two channels (or your video will only have sound on one side) and adjusted to match the expected level in the Zi8.

Fran
Thanks a lot Fran, and yes MXL 4000 is condenser that I've tried with my Fishman SoloAmp and the others without problem.

But now your following msg "The input on the Zi8 is stereo............" got me thinking harder before I jump in. I didn't realize that before. Very appreciate your useful info., anything more that you think I need to know about this situation?
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-10-2010, 10:10 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,712
Default

I got my Zi8 back in September, right after they were re-released, and I did a lot of testing with various input chains, but then discovered that my camera had issues with its audio system. Since then (November) I've been dealing with Kodak to get a resolution. They recently had me return my camera for replacement, so when I return home from Hawai`i I'll be putting my new camera through the same tests and comparisons and finally publish some more in my Homebrewed Music blog.

Fran
__________________
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com
My YouTube clips
The Homebrewed Music Blog
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-10-2010, 10:36 PM
napman's Avatar
napman napman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alta Loma, CA,
Posts: 927
Default

Hi Fran,
I got in your "Homebrew..."
And WOW, there're so many lessons that I can learn from you in there.
Thanks for your "Pot of gold"
__________________
To the thinking man, this world is a comedy, and to the feeling man, it is a tragedy
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=