Acoustic guitar recording with SDC

[RCdreamer]

Hello!

Thanks in advance for giving me permission to ask for your advice regarding acoustic guitar recording.
I need a sdc pair (matched or unmatched). I want it mainly for acoustic guitar (fingerpicking) but I also play clarinet, other wind instruments and percussion.
My budget is not great so my options are:
Oktave Mk 012
Rode NT5
Sontronics STC1
My preamps are warm audio and daking.
My mics are Sontronics Ribbon (Sigma), Sontronics Helios, Shure KSM32 and Rode NT3. I want to improve my acoustic guitar recording. Made a first video testing mid side recording with a ribbon and NT3 but I´m not very happy!
Here´s the video with my first mid side test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwf712f0Hnc

Could you help me choosing a nice sdc pair?
Thank you!

[hello people]

I've heard good stuff about the Oktave mics.

I have the NT5 set and can confirm that they make a true recording of how terribly I play the guitar.

I know nothing about the Sontronics.

[gregg]

FWIW....I thought it sounded great, nice playing too.

[choucas09]

Originally Posted by gregg

FWIW....I thought it sounded great, nice playing too.

I agree, the sound was very good and the playing was excellent.

[RCdreamer]

Originally Posted by choucas09

I agree, the sound was very good and the playing was excellent.

I´m looking for a sound that is not there yet, it needs more "sparkle"! I would like to try it with SDC mics (maybe omni cap).
Thank you!

[ChuckS]

I used to have an Oktava mc-012. I only had one, and when I looked into getting a second for stereo recording I also checked into other options. I was using a pair of ADK A6 for a while and now I'm using 3 zigma sdc with either the cardioid or omni capsules. The A6 is a very nice medium diameter transformer output mic, and and the 3 Zigma accept sdc and ldc capsules.

[RCdreamer]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I used to have an Oktava mc-012. I only had one, and when I looked into getting a second for stereo recording I also checked into other options. I was using a pair of ADK A6 for a while and now I'm using 3 zigma sdc with either the cardioid or omni capsules. The A6 is a very nice medium diameter transformer output mic, and and the 3 Zigma accept sdc and ldc capsules.

The 3 Zigma are too expensive for my budget.
Thank you!

[rick-slo]

You guys, check whether you are recording in phase! The recording was 180 degrees out of phase. There is also a little bit much self noise.

Here is your recording:
First 28 seconds as it was
At 29 seconds I corrected the out of phase
At 50 seconds I added a little equalization and reverb

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGFMisc.mp3

You may or may not like the sound when it was out phase, but the localization is wacky and the low end solidity takes a hit.

Ribbon mikes are darker sounding. Avoid those if you want a crisper, more detailed sound.

[Doug Young]

Good catch, Rick. Sounds much better after the phase fix. I really like the sound here, very natural and smooth. You'll certainly get more high end with you drop the ribbon, and the mics don't have to be sdc. But I like the sound you're getting here, after the phase fix, I'm becoming a fan of ribbons.

it looks like you're recording in MS? So I wonder how you managed to invert the phase?

[RCdreamer]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

You guys, check whether you are recording in phase! The recording was 180 degrees out of phase. There is also a little bit much self noise.

Here is your recording:
First 28 seconds as it was
At 29 seconds I corrected the out of phase
At 50 seconds I added a little equalization and reverb

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGFMisc.mp3

You may or may not like the sound when it was out phase, but the localization is wacky and the low end solidity takes a hit.

Ribbon mikes are darker sounding. Avoid those if you want a crisper, more detailed sound.

Wow! Much better! Thank you!!!
Recorded in Logic with mid side, duplicated the side and inverted phase.
Can you tell me how did you corrected the phase? Need to learn and I need to discover how I made this mistake.
Thank you!

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RCdreamer

Hello!

Thanks in advance for giving me permission to ask for your advice regarding acoustic guitar recording.
I need a sdc pair (matched or unmatched). I want it mainly for acoustic guitar (fingerpicking) but I also play clarinet, other wind instruments and percussion.
My budget is not great so my options are:
Oktave Mk 012
Rode NT5
Sontronics STC1
My preamps are warm audio and daking.
My mics are Sontronics Ribbon (Sigma), Sontronics Helios, Shure KSM32 and Rode NT3. I want to improve my acoustic guitar recording. Made a first video testing mid side recording with a ribbon and NT3 but I´m not very happy!
Here´s the video with my first mid side test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwf712f0Hnc

Could you help me choosing a nice sdc pair?
Thank you!

I have a pair of AKG P170's and like them a lot, and they are inexpensive.
You could purchase a second NT3 to go with your existing mic. (I have a pair of those, too.)
A pair of mid-priced SDCs with omni caps could work if you have a good room.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by RCdreamer

Wow! Much better! Thank you!!!
Recorded in Logic with mid side, duplicated the side and inverted phase.
Can you tell me how did you corrected the phase? Need to learn and I need to discover how I made this mistake.
Thank you!

Don't use Logic myself but it should have a plug-in utility where you can switch phase, and it probably has a correlation meter you can use (if it shows a strong negative correlation you probably need to switch a phase polarity.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by RCdreamer

Wow! Much better! Thank you!!!
Recorded in Logic with mid side, duplicated the side and inverted phase.
Can you tell me how did you corrected the phase? Need to learn and I need to discover how I made this mistake.
Thank you!

Yeah, that's odd. I'm not sure how you can end up with MS being out of phase, unless you did it somehow in the mix after you decoded. One possibility is that you had the sides way too hot? For MS in Logic, I just use a plugin, the Logic Direction Mixer (under Imaging) works fine, or there's a free Voxengo one. You may know this, but the steps are:

Make sure the mid mic is on the left channel.

Set your record levels with both mics facing *forward* as if you were doing a non-MS recording, but with the mics in the same place as you'll use for MS. Make sure the levels are equal.

Now rotate the side mic to it's side position. That level will drop quite a bit. That's ok, it's expect, it's just the side info, and there's less signal there. (If you use matched mics, these 2 steps are simply a matter of setting the same gain on your preamp channels, but since you are using very different mics, you need to calibrate the levels)

Put the decoder plugin on the track. If you use Logic's check the MS input button.

That's it. By default you'll get the equivalent of XY, but you can go wider or narrow the sound to taste.


There are simple ways to handle phase correction. In Logic, bring up the Gain plugin (found under Utility). You can do a couple of things with this plugin, first you can check "Mono" to hear the mix in mono. When the phase is reversed, your signal should get quiet and thin. When using MS correctly, this should let you hear just the mid mic. There's also phase invert buttons for each channel. Also, under "Metering" there's a Correlation plugin. That shows how much in phase your mix or track is. Mono will be +1 all the time. A reasonable stereo mix will bounce around but be in the positive range. The more time it's near 1, the more in phase and coherent your mix is. Tending more near 0 is a more spacious sound, usually gotten by wide spaced pairs. If you're between 0 and -1, you have some phasing issue.

[RCdreamer]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, that's odd. I'm not sure how you can end up with MS being out of phase, unless you did it somehow in the mix after you decoded. One possibility is that you had the sides way too hot? For MS in Logic, I just use a plugin, the Logic Direction Mixer (under Imaging) works fine, or there's a free Voxengo one. You may know this, but the steps are:

Make sure the mid mic is on the left channel.

Set your record levels with both mics facing *forward* as if you were doing a non-MS recording, but with the mics in the same place as you'll use for MS. Make sure the levels are equal.

Now rotate the side mic to it's side position. That level will drop quite a bit. That's ok, it's expect, it's just the side info, and there's less signal there. (If you use matched mics, these 2 steps are simply a matter of setting the same gain on your preamp channels, but since you are using very different mics, you need to calibrate the levels)

Put the decoder plugin on the track. If you use Logic's check the MS input button.

That's it. By default you'll get the equivalent of XY, but you can go wider or narrow the sound to taste.


There are simple ways to handle phase correction. In Logic, bring up the Gain plugin (found under Utility). You can do a couple of things with this plugin, first you can check "Mono" to hear the mix in mono. When the phase is reversed, your signal should get quiet and thin. When using MS correctly, this should let you hear just the mid mic. There's also phase invert buttons for each channel. Also, under "Metering" there's a Correlation plugin. That shows how much in phase your mix or track is. Mono will be +1 all the time. A reasonable stereo mix will bounce around but be in the positive range. The more time it's near 1, the more in phase and coherent your mix is. Tending more near 0 is a more spacious sound, usually gotten by wide spaced pairs. If you're between 0 and -1, you have some phasing issue.

Thanks a lot, Doug!!!

[gianlucar]

My acoustic is a 2004 standard Martin D-35

Recently bought a Oktava MK-012 with only one capsule
to keep budget low I bought a ART Tube MP Pre Amp
I'm using Ardour as DAW

later on I hope to buy a better Pre Amp, meanwhile I'm quite impressed of how good the Oktava MK-012 is