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  #271  
Old 02-07-2018, 04:39 AM
00045 00045 is offline
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Lot's of post's on this subject, I guess the Taylor marketing worked
I love listening to Andy Powers videos and stories, his voice is easy to listen and he get's the message across. CF Martin does pretty well with their marketing as well.
I play the guitars and if I like 'em I buy. I was never a big Taylor fan, but these re-voiced and re-worked 12 strings from Andy made me purchase 2 Taylors.
I love the new 458 and my custom 856.

I am looking forward to try one of these new V-bracing guitars.
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  #272  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:40 AM
werkout52 werkout52 is offline
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Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii View Post
In about 2 weeks Taylor starts it's North American tour "New Model Showcase" events, so we'll know more soon!
Planning on attending the Denver Folklore one in a week. I am curious about people saying the videos have the "Taylor sound". I want to experience the increased volume and play ability up the neck. Some things that videos can't show.
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  #273  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:04 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Am I the only one that finds it strange? It being objecting to a dramatization of the creative process behind a new design to the extent of starting a thread to make the claim that Taylor Guitars has transitioned from "an open, honest and passionate guitar builder to the manipulative marketing machine” without even having tried a V-braced guitar.

I don’t see the video as dishonest or manipulative and I would never assume that Andy Powers didn’t start with a sketch or two to help him coalesce inchoate ideas about soundboard bracing redesign.

Which is worse: the dramatization in question with whatever artistic license it may have used or an "I'll tell you what really happened…” assumption from someone with no firsthand information (probably no second or third-hand either)?
  #274  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:09 PM
Mkel12 Mkel12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kitkatjoe View Post
When will the shops have them? What will the cost range be?
I checked with Sweetwater and they said they will receive the new K-14ce in March. Street price is $4999.
  #275  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:24 AM
Billkwando Billkwando is offline
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Originally Posted by 00045 View Post
I love listening to Andy Powers videos and stories, his voice is easy to listen and he get's the message across. CF Martin does pretty well with their marketing as well.
You might enjoy reading the "stories" on the back of Stouffers and Marie Calendar TV dinners too, but the average thinking person might cringe at storytelling that is basically blatant marketing/ad copy, meant to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a product. At least I know I do.

Maybe not, if you're a marketing student or in a marketing department.

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Which is worse: the dramatization in question with whatever artistic license it may have used or an "I'll tell you what really happened…” assumption from someone with no firsthand information (probably no second or third-hand either)?

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? They could just talk to the camera, like zillions of YouTubers successfully do, and save the reenactments for Unsolved Mysteries.


Taylor has always marketed prestige, treating their guitars as status symbols. It's what has allowed them to excel at being the go-to guitar for people who don't see price as an issue, or may even see it as a selling point. It costs a lot, so it has to be good, right?

It's what has allowed them to unseat Martin as the guitar to have sitting in your corner for people to see, as a conversation piece. You know, "Sure Cadillac is nice, but wouldn't you like a sleek new BMW to impress your friends?"

Fortunately, Taylor guitars are in fact awesome, this is true.

However, it makes perfect sense for them to try to make the old guitars look passe , because I bet they sell almost as many new Taylors to people who collect them "cos they can afford to" as they do to musicians who are simply looking for one good acoustic that will last them a lifetime. For them to treat their guitar lines less like a one time purchase, and more like a magazine or "Franklin Mint collector's plate" subscription, aligns perfectly.

As any old salesman would tell you, "Sell the sizzle, not the steak". Taylor always makes sure their ads are slick and top flight, because rich people loooove their sizzle.



P.S. Just to remind you, I'm not Taylor hater. I own one.

Last edited by Billkwando; 02-09-2018 at 01:33 PM.
  #276  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:34 PM
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I’ll play my 2008 314ce against a new one anyday. Its been played and worked for almost ten years.
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  #277  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:24 PM
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Having worked for a manufacturing company as a design engineer for about 4 decades, I have tried to temper my reactions about this new V bracing. I have worked closely with advertising people; I understand why sales are important to any manufacturing company.

But after watching several of the videos referenced here, I am having trouble with this whole V-bracing pitch, as well. The implication is that a hundred years of X bracing has been wrong and has created guitars with poor intonation and lousy sustain. The more I listen to Andy Powers talk on these videos, the more I am convinced that Taylor has made a huge mistake allowing him to be the front man for this sales pitch. He is using no qualifiers in his praise for his own bracing system, he is not tempering his enthusiasm in the least.

To me, this is all coming across is highly disingenuous. I am beginning to understand all the very negative reactions to this latest Taylor sales pitch.

As ataylor notes above, the suggestion seems to be that all the X-braced guitars are built wrong. That's, of course, ridiculous. X bracing is just as symmetrical as Taylor's new V bracing.

And did I miss Andy Powers assuring us that V bracing will stand the test of time and not just fold up and eventually collapse?

Maybe he is right. I hope I can come back in 100 years and find out that all this hype was actually accurate. In the meantime, I like my old Taylor guitars just fine.

- Glenn
I’m with Glenn on this.

A wise marketer who really understands his audience would have advised Bob, Andy, Kurt, etc to go slowly and softly on this change instead of taking the approach of we have re-defined the acoustic guitar as it should be. It especially seems so out of character for the personalities that Bob and Andy project or maybe I’m just another sucker.

The latest Wood and Steel is even worse. Bob’s column talks about hearing Andy play the first prototype and how it sounded better than any acoustic he had ever heard and when he played it, it even made his singing sound better. Puh-leeeze!

I obviously like my Taylor guitars a lot but the whole way Taylor went about this does seem as Glenn accurately states, “highly disingenuous”.
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  #278  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:27 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
I’m with Glenn on this.



A wise marketer who really understands his audience would have advised Bob, Andy, Kurt, etc to go slowly and softly on this change instead of taking the approach of we have re-defined the acoustic guitar as it should be. It especially seems so out of character for the personalities that Bob and Andy project or maybe I’m just another sucker.



The latest Wood and Steel is even worse. Bob’s column talks about hearing Andy play the first prototype and how it sounded better than any acoustic he had ever heard and when he played it, it even made his singing sound better. Puh-leeeze!



I obviously like my Taylor guitars a lot but the whole way Taylor went about this does seem as Glenn accurately states, “highly disingenuous”.


Amen. Either that, or they’re right and we’ll be proven wrong. But, anything less than stellar performance from heir new products will damage brand credibility for the next innovation. I hope for their sakes that this is not hyperbole. I threw away the Wood and Steel after reading it. It was disappointing.
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  #279  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Amen. Either that, or they’re right and we’ll be proven wrong. But, anything less than stellar performance from their new products will damage brand credibility for the next innovation. I hope for their sakes that this is not hyperbole.
Um, they've gotten away with it before, it seems. Ever hear of the Expression System?


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Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
Bob’s column talks about hearing Andy play the first prototype and how it sounded better than any acoustic he had ever heard and when he played it, it even made his singing sound better. Puh-leeeze!




I bet Bob sings like Paul Shaffer.

Last edited by Billkwando; 02-09-2018 at 01:41 PM.
  #280  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:06 PM
drawshot1975 drawshot1975 is offline
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I couldn't care less about all the drama going on in the forums (here and elsewhere)...as everyone is entitled to their opinion. This includes the people at Taylor, the ones who love to bash them, and everyone in between.

My post, here, is only to share the fact that I spent an hour with a new K14ce and a new 914ce today.

They are loud.
They are gorgeous.
They ring out for days.
They are articulate, with good note separation.
The 914ce is a bit warmer on the lows, and the highs are a bit more shimmery.
The K14ce is so amazingly balanced and clean. A chord-lover's dream.
The satin-y finish on the K14ce feels awesome.
The Koa on the K14ce is stunning.
The fretboard inlays on the K14ce are a bit too fancy, IMO, for a 'Player's Guitar.

Both scream 'high-end' instrument, and are impressive to see, play, and hear.

Better than the older versions? Open to opinion.

Worth the money? To me...yes. To you.....?
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  #281  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:22 PM
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Good to hear from someone who has played a couple. That takes much of the BS out of the air.
  #282  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:55 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Originally Posted by drawshot1975 View Post
.....My post, here, is only to share the fact that I spent an hour with a new K14ce and a new 914ce today.

They are loud.
They are gorgeous.
They ring out for days.
They are articulate, with good note separation.
The 914ce is a bit warmer on the lows, and the highs are a bit more shimmery.
The K14ce is so amazingly balanced and clean. A chord-lover's dream.
The satin-y finish on the K14ce feels awesome.
The Koa on the K14ce is stunning.
The fretboard inlays on the K14ce are a bit too fancy, IMO, for a 'Player's Guitar.

Both scream 'high-end' instrument, and are impressive to see, play, and hear.
Better than the older versions? Open to opinion.
Worth the money? To me...yes. To you.....?
Well said, and actually based on first-hand experience, finally. I am currently slogging through the syrupy marketing copy in my latest Wood & Steel. Some of the claims and statements make sense to a degree, but others sound more like the misinterpretation of technical things by the partially informed. I've worked in acoustics and vibration for 34 years now. But I have not built any guitars.

I will reserve judgement until I can try one personally in a decent room.
  #283  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drawshot1975 View Post

My post, here, is only to share the fact that I spent an hour with a new K14ce and a new 914ce today.

They are loud.
They are gorgeous.
They ring out for days.
They are articulate, with good note separation.
The 914ce is a bit warmer on the lows, and the highs are a bit more shimmery.
The K14ce is so amazingly balanced and clean. A chord-lover's dream.
The satin-y finish on the K14ce feels awesome.
The Koa on the K14ce is stunning.
The fretboard inlays on the K14ce are a bit too fancy, IMO, for a 'Player's Guitar.
While this is good to hear, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions unless the above is measured against say a similar 2017 Koa or PS model. That’s what is really needed and it may be out there already.
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Last edited by SprintBob; 02-09-2018 at 05:25 PM.
  #284  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:03 PM
drawshot1975 drawshot1975 is offline
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While this good to hear, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions unless the above is measured against say a similar 2017 Koa or PS model. That’s what is really needed and it may be out there already.
I concluded that I think they're great guitars, that look/feel/play phenomenally.

I don't need to play a dozen different ones to form my opinion of the two I handled today.

My post wasn't intended to dig deep into all the bickering going on about the bracing, originality of said bracing, or the merits of comparative analysis between new and old.

I just wanted to pass on to the majority...who have neither seen or played one, personally...that the new offerings are exceptional instruments.

I thought that was pretty clear in my first post on the subject....
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  #285  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by drawshot1975 View Post
I concluded that I think they're great guitars, that look/feel/play phenomenally.

I don't need to play a dozen different ones to form my opinion of the two I handled today.

My post wasn't intended to dig deep into all the bickering going on about the bracing, originality of said bracing, or the merits of comparative analysis between new and old.

I just wanted to pass on to the majority...who have neither seen or played one, personally...that the new offerings are exceptional instruments.

I thought that was pretty clear in my first post on the subject....
Drawshot,

I think you took my comment out of context and I should have clarified better. I was not being critical of your observations. The conclusion I referred to is whether V-braced Taylors sound better than last year's similar 900 and K series models. I'm a Taylor fan and spent nearly $8K on two new Taylors last year. If I take the marketing claims as accurate, was my timing bad ?

Best,

SB
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