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  #1  
Old 06-11-2014, 12:54 PM
Jupiter Tarts Jupiter Tarts is offline
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Default Questions to those who play 12 string primarily

After receiving the gift of a 12 string Alvarez AD80 guitar not too long ago, I've decided that I want to take the plunge and play 12 strings "primarily", not necessarily exclusively. By that I mean get one or two expensive 12 strings for my collection (an electric and an acoustic). I play rhythm guitar primarily and do tons of singing and play. I've been looking at rickenbackers and all variations of the sort for electrics and have fiddling around with the setup of my alvarez. I want to upgrade to a carbon 12 string acoustic somewhere down the line, too.

To those who play 12 string primarily, I just have a few questions.

-What guitar or guitars, acoustic or electric, do you play and how do you have yours set up? As in what setup do you use to make it play and feel the way it can?

-What kinds of regular maintenance and upkeep do you have to do on a 12 string that's more intensive than on a 6 string? The string change on my Alvarez took a whole hour compared to the usual half hour.

-How has playing 12 string affected the way that you do your arrangements of certain songs compared to the way that you would play a song on a 6 string? I know that I developed a hatred of barre chords on acoustic 12 string but have no problems with them on electric 12 strings.

-What advice would you give someone just starting out the 12 string?
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:20 PM
geordie geordie is offline
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hi JT, AY 12 string on which I play my own solo fingerpicked pieces.
No particular setup, just the same as my 6 strings except I’ve reversed the octave / normal pairs on the EAD and use two wound ‘G’s’ .22 gauge as I usually play in extended Cittern tunings for Gaelic music.
Under 30 minuets to do a string change + clean and oil F/B.
Composition and arranging are much the same as on 6 string only that some of the more picked chordal stuff suites the 2’er better.
It’s the same instrument with different textures.
HTH
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:28 PM
DanPanther DanPanther is offline
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Jupiter Tarts;
I can only speak for myself, I found that many songs I played on the 6 string sounded better on a 12 string. Problem was not all songs sound good on a 12 string. The dilemma, what to do.
I found a solution that allows me to play most songs I like either 6 string or 12 string, on my 12 string, by removing the 3 Low octave strings from the 12 string.
This may not be an acceptable solution for all, but I find I'm very happy with it.
Alvarez, and other actually made a 9 string guitar at one point, until someone figured out that you can make a 9 string out of 12 string, but you can't make a 12 string from a 9 string. So it never caught on. Several players use 9 strings. However the appeal was still there.

Dan
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter Tarts View Post
What advice would you give someone just starting out the 12 string?
Only the old adage: "With a twelve-string guitar, you will spend half your time tuning it and the other half playing it out of tune."
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:53 PM
beachbum205 beachbum205 is offline
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For string changing on any guitar, but especially a 12- this is an absolute must:
http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Waves-D.../dp/B008BPI2OW
This will save you hours, is very inexpensive, and trust me, it is worth its weight in gold.

I play an older Taylor 450 which I really like. You just can't go wrong with a Taylor 12 string IMHO. I want my setup as low as possible without buzz when I strum fairly hard. For me, this is for all my guitars, not just 12s

Hope that helps.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:56 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Hi JT,

I was once a player that played the 12-string primarily, but that was some years ago. I have a Guild F212 (spruce/mahogany) 12-string built in 1972. I also have a Rickenbacker 360 12-string.

The Rickenbacker has a great sound but it has a very narrow nut width, I think 1 5/8" (1.63"). For a lot of people, this is hard to get used to. It always takes me a little while to get used to the cramped spacing on this guitar when I get it out.

Regarding action, I have a fairly light touch and try to the get the action as low as possible, just like my 6-strings.

Maintenance is no different than a 6-string.

String change takes longer but I bought an Ernie Ball battery powered string winder and that really helps speed things up.

Regarding 12-string arrangements, if I write a song on a 12-string, the song naturally uses the advantages of the 12-string. I just do it intuitively. I tend to use more bass string runs to emphasize the sound of the octave string pairs where it makes sense.

On the 6-string I play almost everything fingerstyle. On the 12-string, I tend to be about 50/50 between playing with my fingers (thumb pick + fingernails) and a flat pick. To me, the 12-string lends itself very well to strumming, rhythm playing.

Gordon Lightfoot provides some very good lessons on using a 12-string vs using a 6-string. Almost everything he plays on a 12-string is played with a flat pick; almost everything he plays on the 6-string is played with his fingers. John Denver's music also provides some good examples of strumming and finger picking a 12-string.

- Glenn
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:35 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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To those who play 12 string primarily, I just have a few questions.

-What guitar or guitars, acoustic or electric, do you play and how do you have yours set up? As in what setup do you use to make it play and feel the way it can?

I prefer to keep things simple and only keep one 12 string and one 6 string. I play out about once a week, and will a folk club. Though, from the looks of it, I might be playing out more often. I tried about 7 different 12 strings before settling on the Taylor. I keep the setup with reasonably low action and switch between .10-.47 elixirs and .11-.50 dean markley strings. I use a fully compensated bone saddle so keep intonation spot on. I use a Paige 12 string capo and sometimes a Kyser 12 string capo, when I need fast changes. My Taylor has the new ES2 and I use a Loudbox mini for amplification/monitor and plug into a PA where available.

-What kinds of regular maintenance and upkeep do you have to do on a 12 string that's more intensive than on a 6 string? The string change on my Alvarez took a whole hour compared to the usual half hour.

I change the strings fairly frequently. I am a bit particular about having fresh strings. Even the elixirs need to be changed every month or so. I use the Ernie Ball electric string winder and a pair of wire cutters. I can get the strings changed, stretched, and tuned, in about 25 minutes. They need to settle over night.

-How has playing 12 string affected the way that you do your arrangements of certain songs compared to the way that you would play a song on a 6 string? I know that I developed a hatred of barre chords on acoustic 12 string but have no problems with them on electric 12 strings.

I think it has definitely changed my approach to solo music. I get a more full sound with simple arrangements and focus on the singing. I do not arrange tunes with barre chords specifically because I don't like the sound of barre chords above the 4th fret. And, they are usually relegated to Bm and F#m, etc. I usually will capo and use open chords because that is where the 12 string excels. I think if you watch the 12 string folk singers from the 60's you'll see the same thing. Also, I have mostly abandoned flat picks. I play with bare fingers in finger style now, ala John Denver. I'll use a flat pick where I need to rock out or play Gordon Lightfoot.

-What advice would you give someone just starting out the 12 string?[/QUOTE]

I would keep an open mind about it. And, I would also not try and force yourself to use a 12 string, if it doesn't feel right. I sometimes feel guilty for not playing the 6 string more, but I suppose once you start arranging songs in your head for 12 strings, it's easy to keep going in that direction. Also, if you plan to play it a lot, get a good one that stays in tune. And I would recommend you buy a Peterson strobo clip, if you haven't already. Once you get used to strobe tuning, it's much easier and faster, which is especially helpful for 12 string playing. Keep it in TUNE, always.
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Last edited by martingitdave; 06-11-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:22 PM
franchelB franchelB is offline
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I play a Taylor 355CE...out of the box. I string it up with either Elixir Polyweb or D'Addario EXP lights. I don't worry about my Taylor anymore than I worry about my other guitars. Sorry, but I don't baby any of my guitars, which probably makes me the worst guitar person in the world.

And the only arrangement that I prefer my Taylor over the other 6-string guitars is that I use a "Drop-D tuning" on certain songs. I don't notice the difference as much on the 6, like I do with the 12.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:01 PM
Jim Jim is offline
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IF you want to upgrade to a good quality 12 string I would urge you to limit your search to Taylors and the US made Guilds (not the GADs). You are eventually going to wind up with one of these as you will just not be happy with anything else especially if you are going to be playing it a lot.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:51 AM
Jupiter Tarts Jupiter Tarts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
IF you want to upgrade to a good quality 12 string I would urge you to limit your search to Taylors and the US made Guilds (not the GADs). You are eventually going to wind up with one of these as you will just not be happy with anything else especially if you are going to be playing it a lot.
I can understand what you mean. I tried a Taylor 355 at my local sam ash and definitely felt like a few pegs above my alvarez, albeit something more likely to baby than the alvarez. On the other hand, that Rainsong WS3000 that I tried at the user noman's house (its a long story, he got me started on 12 strings and gifted me the alvarez) was probably one of the nicest and richest sounding 12 string guitars I've ever played, albeit a guitar in the realm of $2k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPanther View Post
Alvarez, and other actually made a 9 string guitar at one point, until someone figured out that you can make a 9 string out of 12 string, but you can't make a 12 string from a 9 string. So it never caught on. Several players use 9 strings. However the appeal was still there.

Dan
Holy heck, I tried out this idea and ditched the secondary strings along the EAD and it's made the alvarez much more playable. When I tried fingerpicking, I'd hit the smaller string first on the attack and never got the bass working properly but with bare bass strings and double trebles, I still get the chime where I want it. I think I'll be keeping my alvarez like this for awhile to see how I like it over time.


Also I know what everyone means when they say they spend a lot of time tuning. Sometimes I can leave the Martin or Eastman laying around for a day or two and it'll still be in tune for the most part. Not so with the Alvarez although I assume it gets better as I step up in quality. Or not

I appreciate everyone's input so far. Might have to consult my dad about some John Denver songs since that's his expertise.
__________________
Acoustics:
Eastman AJ816ce (the rhythm)
Takamine Peak 2013 LTD (the solo performer)
Martin MMV Dreadnought (because everyone needs a Martin )

Electrics:
Fender Telecaster (the workhorse)
ESP EC-1000 VB (the shredder)
G&L L2000 (its a bass)
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