What Is It About The B String?

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

...As far as the B string sounding different, the most obvious reason is that it is different: it's plain steel. ...

i agree. on an electric, with an unwound 3rd string, it can be the most troublesome string.

[John Arnold]

..As far as the B string sounding different, the most obvious reason is that it is different: it's plain steel...

So is the high E string. The difference is the smaller diameter, and slightly more tension.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

So is the high E string. The difference is the smaller diameter, and slightly more tension.

that's a good point, it's the largest unwound string. i wonder if an acoustic saddle can't quite compensate enough.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

1) use a wound B string.

do these exist?

[John Arnold]

use a wound B string.
do these exist?

Tough to find, but they do exist.

that's a good point, it's the largest unwound string. i wonder if an acoustic saddle can't quite compensate enough.

With a wide or split saddle, you can compensate to get correct intonation at the 12th fret. But the other problems still remain.

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

So is the high E string. The difference is the smaller diameter, and slightly more tension.

My point was that the B string will sound thin when transitioning to it from the G string, which is wound. The E string does not suffer the same fate, since it is next to the B string (which is plain steel). I believe some of the perceived thinness of the B string is an aural illusion.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Tough to find, but they do exist.

With a wide or split saddle, you can compensate to get correct intonation at the 12th fret. But the other problems still remain.

how about on an electric, which generally has an even larger unwound g string?

[kpmsmith]

Glad to know it wasn't me all this time... The #$%#&* 'B' string drives me crazy on some days and on other days S'OK... Most frustrating on the 12 string.

I usually fret the 'B' on the third fret and bring it to equal with the open 'D' string.

Helps!! Sometimes...

[John Arnold]

how about on an electric, which generally has an even larger unwound g string?

IMHO, they are totally worthless, meaning even worse than a plain B string.

My point was that the B string will sound thin when transitioning to it from the G string, which is wound. The E string does not suffer the same fate, since it is next to the B string (which is plain steel). I believe some of the perceived thinness of the B string is an aural illusion.

Of course the B string stands out from the other strings, but I don't think there is any illusion. The inharmonic overtones are real, and they interfere with the 'pure' sound that we have come to expect from the other strings.

I usually fret the 'B' on the third fret and bring it to equal with the open 'D' string.

Tuning a guitar correctly (meaning the tempered scale) will help somewhat. If the major thirds are tuned by ear, the tendency is to flatten the upper note. Tuning to octaves eliminates this problem, because the octave is the only just interval in the tempered scale.
You can also compensate the nut, in addition to the saddle, in order to achieve something close to correct intonation. That will help with the bending stiffness at the nut, which tends to sharpen the notes fretted nearest the nut. But the plain B string will never have as pure a tone as the other strings because of the physics.

[dangrunloh]

Originally Posted by steveyam

Hmm, seems a dangerous thing to do; lower an individual string cos you're hitting it too hard. Not for me.

I think I'm lowering it because it is sitting higher than the others. No real danger in this case as a new Tusq saddle is only $12.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by dangrunloh

I think I'm lowering it because it is sitting higher than the others. No real danger in this case as a new Tusq saddle is only $12.

No but that wasn't what you said originally, it was all about lowering the B wrt to the G and E on any guitar, there was no mention of your B being too high in the first place, you inferred that it was a fix for a loud B string, period. In fact, all strings sit 'higher than the others'; they follow an arc, not a straight line. To be fair, the $12 cost to you is inconsequential in terms of how dangerous lowering the B string is; it's the fact that other guys may see lowering the B string as 'good', bomb proof advice that concerns me. Anyway, as I say, not a method that I would choose personally. And string height is not affected by the saddle intonation stagger neither. They are separate things.

[JannieA]

I really have no idea why but with my Taylor with the tusq saddle, I was always retuning the B string, the guitar is new and I'm new to steel strings coming from playing a classical and I thought that maybe this was normal.

I wear hearing aides and he high E would just get to me with a kind of chime and I tried switching from Elixir 80/20 to PB and the sound from the wound strings was Awsome but the unwound strings were the same because they probably were the same and the B still went up and down out of tune, not a big deal, not a lot but it was the only one tha acted that way.

I had Bob Colosi make me an Ivory saddle and it not only sweetened the sound of the E and B but the B doesn't act up anymore. I've had Elixir Light Nano PB's, Martin Custom Light SP's and now D'Adderio EXP Custom Lights and no weirdness with the B at all. Yes the Colosi is a compensated saddle made to match the origional Taylor saddle in every dimension and this doesn't make any sense to me but that's okay because it works.

[doctrane]

Originally Posted by dangrunloh

The B-string is special. You can't treat it like all the others especially if you use a pick. You can't beat on it or dig too deep with a pick without overstimulating it into making undesired very high-pitch harmonics. You must treat it with love and a more gentle handling and it will sing. The high E is that way too but not so bad unless you tune it down. Sometimes it's not the guitar but the player. It may help to use slightly higher gauge on the B if you are that type of player. If you think it's the guitar try moving the string to a different position. It may still do it.

The best pick zone to avoid the "ping" can be very narrow. For some picks it's very difficult for me to avoid it, others not so much.

My guitars are my teachers and they tell me that each string wants to be picked a little differently, you can't just whack at them all with the same force and release. You got to make love to them and the B string is the queen *****. She doesn't mind bare fingers but hates picks, so be nice.

P.S. That is not to say there aren't many other things that make a buzz but I believe the solids will "ping" or "rattle" if over- picked and it's worse with light strings and full length necks. Capo up a few frets and it goes away for me. It's also more obvious with a bright responsive guitar. A little ping actually perks up the dull thuddy ones.

I couldn't agree more...
I have found the b to require a gentle non-pointed pick, perhaps closer to the fret board. Also depends on what other strings are resonating(vibrating) that shape the overall blend

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, count me in the increasing number that has problems with clunky or pingy B strings (and incidentally - sometimes top Es).

I play Collings guitars now (sorry.....er ... no I'm not) and so have done quite a lot of research about this on the Collings forum and found that I was not alone - so here's some info to add to the conversation:

1. the well tempered aspect is of course correct- but that doesn't (IMHO) resolve why a B string is often sounding choked/nasty. However, a trick that was taught to me by John Lowell is to never tune the B string to B on your tuner - BUT tune the D(3rd fret) to D on your tuner - really works folks!

If you check tensions - the top E and the B correctly tunes have less than 1/10th of a pound weight difference in tension !?

2. You might be cheered to know that the more finely built the guitar the more likely you are to experience this problem.....No? Well it seems to be born out.

3. On my 12 fret dreads I use D'addario EJ17s, but I usually swap the B&E for a 16 & 12. (Well why not buy EJ19s ? - 'cos a) they are more expensive and b) I like a 26 G and c) because I STILL get that problem of clunky strings.

But that's not the point - as much as I really appreciate D'addario strings - I have been told by a luthier in Australia (who has studied this matter) - that D'addario wound strings are not always as consistent in diameter along the length as they might be.

So - I buy my Ej17s and simply buy a batch of Elixir (anti-rust) or Newtones or Ernie Balls which almost always resolves the situation.

Now this raises the eternal question as to whether D'addario makes strings for other labels - some say they make Elixirs - I really don't know but they seem to solve the problem.

I have raised this issue with D'addartio UK in the past and they have been receptive but unaware of the issues - I have been intending to re-raise it with the info from the gent in Aus. but - well life - y'know.

Incidentally I am old and have some hearing issues (years behind a drum kit beside Marshall stacks). I have a good pal picking partner of similar vintage who has the same problems with his two Martins.
I also have a pal who is a few years younger who cannot hear this issue.

FWIW - I hope that might throw some useful info into the thread.

[darrinc]

I'm fairly new to guitar playing and haven't had a huge exposure to different guitars. I have had some issues with how the B-String sounded on my guitar since I bought it. I really like the guitar and how it sounds but there was something just not right about the B-string. Very subtle but slightly off. I assumed it was my guitar. Its well built with decent wood but not a high-end guitar and chalked the issues up to a slight defect in the design.

While it still might be something with the guitar I'm feeling a bit better hearing from others that it might just well be something about the B-String.

Another +1 for this forum. Thanks everyone.

[DesertTwang]

same here. I just accept it as how guitars are and ignore it. I mean, the whole standard tuning is insane. the b string is always the odd one out. I just resigned to the fact.