#16
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#17
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I agree with Weisser, Yamaha Junkie - I wouldn't do it again unless I had two and wanted to play with one. I think someone could do a better job of adding x-braces than I did (scalloped appropraitely, for example). My experiment didn't "improve" the tone - just change it.
If I could get my hands on a good Soveriegn, I'd keep it all original if I could. They were really fine guitars at a decent price.
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McCawber “We are all bozos on this bus." 1967 D-28 (still on warranty) / 1969 homemade Mastertone / 1977 OME Juggernaught / 2003 D-42 / 2006 HD-28V burst / 2010 Little Martin / 2012 Custom Shop HD-28V / 2014 Taylor 356ce 12 / 2016 Martin D-28 Authentic |
#18
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I agree with most posts in this thread. I own a ladder braced Gibson LG-1 from 1957 and a J-200. The tone of each guitar is radically different almost like chocolate and vanilla. But I find it keeps my playing fresh and adds a new dimensional to certain songs I play. I wouldn't change a thing about my ladder braced Gibson. Its really just another color in my musically palette that really works for certain types of music. Its too bad there aren't more ladder braced options out there.
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Acoustics: 1990 Gibson J-200 w/ K&K Pure Mini Electrics: 1999 American Standard Fender Telecaster Amps: Swart Atomic Space Tone with NOS glass and a Swart Night Light Pedals: Swart Fuzzy & Atomic Boost, Mad Professor DBD, Boss RC-3 |
#19
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Another modern builder of ladder braced guitars is Todd Cambio, you can hear Paul Geremia playing different models at Fraulini.com
Some, but not all, of the old ladder braced guitars as well as Sel-Mac (which are ladder braced) have tailpieces instead of pinned bridges. Therefore they have almost zero rotational torque around the bridge - this makes perfect sense for ladder bracing. X bracing works very well to strengthen the area between the bridge and soundhole - a ladder braced guitar simply doesn't need that. The feeling that old Harmonys and Stellas and such somehow "imploded" because their tops were so weak is, in my opinion, mostly bunk. Lots of them were cheaply made, they just didn't stand up well in general. However some did, Leadbelly's famous Stella is in good shape in spite of the really heavy strings that he used (reported to be something like 16 -70 tuned to A). I love the sound of the old blues so I decided to build a long scale ladder braced 12 - basically a Stella-clone. Here it is next to my X braced OM 12 And here are the big fat ladder braces They are so totally different that it is not fair to compare the sound, but I can summarize the Stella clone by saying it is boxy and bluesy sounding, very old timey. It has a quicker attack and shorter sustain than the OM, and is much louder. With its 26.2 scale it is happiest tuned down four half steps (I down tune the OM two). It truely does have the sound that I associate with Willie McTell, Leadbelly, Geremia (whew!) I like it enough that my project for this fall will be a small bodied ladder braced 6 string. |
#20
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Nothin' wrong with ladders if they are built right...
Here's a parlor... And a 12... Here's a hybrid that I sometimes use on 12's... |
#21
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Great post, extremely interesting and illuminating material.
Thank you all you luthiers and techs for posting your expert know-how and photos...although on the short side, this has been one of my favorite learning threads in a long time. |
#22
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Guild CO-2 Guild JF30-12 Guild D55 Goodall Grand Concert Cutaway Walnut/Italian Spruce Santa Cruz Brazilian VJ Taylor 8 String Baritone Blueberry - Grand Concert Magnum Opus J450 Eastman AJ815 Parker PA-24 Babicz Jumbo Identity Walden G730 Silvercreek T170 Charvell 150 SC Takimine G406s |
#23
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John |
#24
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Bumping this old thread because I just acquired a ladder-braced Harmony OM.
Interesting in that it's fairly quiet (the ladder bracing is pretty heavy), so I'd like to put mediums on to drive the top (scale is 25", which reduces tension bit). But I'm worried about longitudinal support (thankfully, the neck angle is pretty good). If you were to make mods without popping off the back, what would you do? Add support on the sides of the sound hole? Between the flat bridge brace and the brace above the bridge? None of the above?
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gits: good and plenty chops: snickers |
#25
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What's the two small diamond shapes (reinforcements?) above and below the bridge plate..?
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#26
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Now it sounds really, really close to my Martin DSM. Who knew a Grand Concert Harmony could sound close to a Martin, including the boomy bass? Dan |
#27
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The H162 (spruce topped twin) just didn't sound any good comparatively.
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Pogreba Baritone Weissenheimer 'Weissenborn style" (awesome!) Lazy River mahogany weissenborn style Lazy River short scale weissenborn Mainland Tenor Uke |
#28
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I enjoyed my Stella Harmony OM sized guitar as I got it: ladder braced, neck needing a reset and top sunken around the soundhole. Even with that, I heard something I liked. I sent if off to have the 'works' done, including X bracing.
How did the sound change? Everything got richer and sweeter. Previously it rocked for country style but lacked a lot for fingerstyle. I considered taking the back off and rebracing, but felt like I did not want to tackle a neck reset! |
#29
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Little bump here I guess but I can add a bit, as I've been learning a bit more about this over the last year or so.
I'm a big fan of the Harmonys' (162 / 165 / and recently Sovs.) I've re-built quite a few. All need neck sets typically. So I did 2 165s', first got X-braced. 2nd just got the neck set, nut saddle setup etc. Brought the 2nd in to my buddy and didn't say a word about what I'd done, brace wise; just wanted his honest opinion. He basically thought it was pretty poopy, as did I. So after X-bracing, it was by far, much nicer. First one was also awesome with the X. Every 162 (spruce) I've ever worked all got the X (5 or 6 of em). I think they're every bit as fine as the 165's, just a little different, obviously. I think having the old seasoned wood that's been moving as a guitar for so long gives you a wonderful palate for a great sounding guitar. Love those Braz boards & bridges of course too. I also saved a cool little all Hog Favilla that worked out great (X'd currently the replacement to a Guild for the gal in Gypsy Moon). Re-built a slightly smaller bodied (00ish?) spruce top Favilla (50's ish), much like the 162 for a buddy, years back. One of the finest sounding things you'd ever spank. So recently I scored a 12-fret-slothead 12-string Sov w/ a floater bridge. Set the neck and strung it up as a 6. Wonderful, no need to open that up. Playing around with it as a 5-course currently (Octave mando w/a low C or mando cello w/a high E, if you will). Pretty cool, 3 - things in one. 6/10/12. Just swap out the nuts and saddles. Back to the bracing thing; the 12-string/ like the 162/5s' have an 'all the way across the top' bridgeplate. Never seemed to like it on the smaller boxes but on the Sov, it seems to work fine. Then there's a couple Kays I set necks on, plywood box w/solid tops. Kelvenator / 60's ish little jumbos. Both sound awesome, no way they need re-bracing. I suspect a big difference is in the bridgeplate. The Kay's have a b-plate that's more of the norm; only slightly wider than the bridge itself. I guess what I've come away with from all this is to; 1 re-set neck, set up etc. 2 evaluate 3 go on to X brace if needed. X or ladder, either CAN make a wonderful guitar, just depends I guess. Every box is different. Here's some vids of above projects 12 string Sov https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGE0...32ItJg&index=2 Harmony 162 vs Kay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGam...L7pLteA232ItJg 2 162s' / 2 Kays https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c88p...L7pLteA232ItJg Little Favilla Hog in the works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHaK...L7pLteA232ItJg and being played https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ0U...L7pLteA232ItJg 20's Weymann banjo necks I made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdc0...L7pLteA232ItJg Last edited by dobrodave; 12-22-2014 at 08:33 PM. |
#30
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I've owned a John How Ladder Braced Concert for six years or so, had it custom built (appointments and neck profile) and it's hands down the best guitar i own.
This How has excellent sustain and a complex sound for a mahogany guitar, so it's not what the common perception suggests to expect from a ladder braced acoustic. The How is a high end instrument and that's the sound. The How is spec-ed for light gauge, never had any issue w/ the top moving. Today I played a new (Collings) Waterloo, had a very vintage feel and sound. Built like a (very nice) cheap guitar of the '40s and sounded just like one as well, this unit was x braced (they make both). That old time blues sound is a combination of factors, bracing and style of construction. |