Wood vs Shape vs Bracing in a Classical Crossover

[Quickstep192]

"One thing my experience suggests is that a nut narrower than 1-3/4" is probably a bad idea"

Amen. I consider 1-3/4" kind of narrow even on steel strings. I was thinking more like 1-7/8.

Thanks all for sharing your wisdom. After pouring over scores of plans, I think I'm going to end up the the Jose Ramirez plan. The lower bout seems to satisfy my desire for a round bottom (on my guitar and I'm not re-inventing a wheel. It seems to have an unusual bracing pattern; Can anyone tell me what to expect from this bracing pattern?

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

"One thing my experience suggests is that a nut narrower than 1-3/4" is probably a bad idea"

Amen. I consider 1-3/4" kind of narrow even on steel strings. I was thinking more like 1-7/8.

Thanks all for sharing your wisdom. After pouring over scores of plans, I think I'm going to end up the the Jose Ramirez plan. The lower bout seems to satisfy my desire for a round bottom (on my guitar and I'm not re-inventing a wheel. It seems to have an unusual bracing pattern; Can anyone tell me what to expect from this bracing pattern?

One thing to know about the Ramirez bracing plan is that it seems to be designed with cedar in mind. (I even have the book, "Things about the guitar" by J.Ramirez the 3rd?, which talks about random aspects of the guitar, and includes an expression for his choice of cedar, If I remember correctly.) The extra angled brace shown cutting across (through) the 2nd transverse brace (harmonic bar) "constrains" the soundboard and limits its vibrations in that portion of the soundboard. This helps create body in the higher notes and higher overtones, since it adds stiffness.

The brace AFAIK does not cut through, but only butts up to, the harmonic bar in many iterations of this design. This is the first bracing pattern for Ramirez I have seen showing the extra brace intersecting and crossing the transverse brace.

If you decide to build with spruce, you may want to consider adjustment of thicknesses. (Generally, thinner than cedar. Especially top thickness and the extra diagonal brace thickness.)

[WaddyT]

Don't get all hung up on bracing patterns. Probably doesn't matter what pattern you choose. If it's built by a luthier/guitarmaker, it'll sound like one of his/hers. I have built with several patterns. All have pretty much the same sound. Some are better than others, but it has nothing to do with the pattern. Braces are just a means to keep the top thinner an maintain strength and stiffness. This is particularly true in nylon strung instruments. I use the same pattern on Cedar and Spruce. Both sound fine.

I see, you are building the guitar. Still wouldn't get hung up on bracing patterns. Do something you are comfortable with. Symmetrical is easier to deal with if you haven't built a lot of instruments. Don't let anyone tell you there is a bass side and a treble side. No such thing.. Treble resides above the bridge and toward the wings where there is lots of stiffness between the linings and the bridge and the bass is in the area below the bridge between there and the tail, primarily. The proof is in guitars built like the Ramirez plan which are then converted to lefty guitars. Still sound the same. Not a hoot of difference.

[Quickstep192]

Since you've mentioned top wood, maybe I can use that to segue to my next questions. When you refer to Cedar, are you referring to Western Red Cedar, not Port Orford Cedar or Alaskan Yellow Cedar? Also, I love the sound of Joost Assink's guitar. In his build, he mentions that the top is Swiss Alpine Moon Spruce. I'm wondering if that's worth considering/pursuing.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Since you've mentioned top wood, maybe I can use that to segue to my next questions. When you refer to Cedar, are you referring to Western Red Cedar, not Port Orford Cedar or Alaskan Yellow Cedar? Also, I love the sound of Joost Assink's guitar. In his build, he mentions that the top is Swiss Alpine Moon Spruce. I'm wondering if that's worth considering/pursuing.

Sorry, Western red cedar is the specific cedar preferred by Ramirez. In his book "Things about the guitar" on page 15 (English version) his first chapter is titled "The Red Cedar (thuja plicata)".

This chapter talks about various pros of WRC, including resistance to warping, quality of tone, and longevity. He also says he likes German spruce, but prefers WRC.

[Quickstep192]

Another decision made! - Productive day!


Thanks everyone.