Taylor GC5 setup

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by hello people

Most saddles I've seen are, what, about 5mm wide? So to file a bevel that makes the string break further back on the saddle, I couldn't really do any more than a couple of mil...

As Ned pointed out, most commercially made guitars have a saddle that is either 1/8" or 3/32" thick. As you said, you have only a few mm within which to make adjustments. On many guitars, that isn't enough to achieve very accurate intonation.

it's not like I'd want to file a bevel back to leave only a sliver of saddle.

If need be, that is exactly what you want. Ensure, however, that you don't leave the bearing surface a knife-edge: strings don't like that. Round the bearing surface with a small diameter/radius.

You said that string height affects the amount of intonation required. Typically, (is there a rule for this) does a higher action result in sharpness as I am describing? (the strings fret sharp at the 12th). Or does lower action result in sharpness?

Generally, higher=sharper.

I just ask because the shop set my guitar up (no idea how competently) for 12 gauge string, but I have since put 11's on. I thought the 11's may be a little higher than the 12's and that's why the intonation is sharp all over the place.

No. If anything, your strings will be lower, not higher, with a lighter gage. You need to accurately measure these things, not guess at them if you plan to make any sense out of how to perform a setup.

As Ned stated, changing from 12's to 11's will alter the intonation only slightly, if at all. If the intonation is that far out having just had it setup, either you have the saddle in backwards or it should be returned to the guy who set it up to have it properly adjusted/corrected. It is another story if he doesn't know how.

I'm gonna shut up now and just trial and error this whole thing for myself...but just one more question...if I file a bevel back say 1mm, does that small amount basically go a long way to correct a string that is not intonated? I mean are we dealing with fractions of millimeters here...very small amounts of filing?

I don't recommend trial and error for learning guitar setup. It is well established "technology". There is no reason to reinvent the wheel. Go read about how it is properly done or watch Youtube videos. Some of the information available is very good. An internet discussion forum is not an effective means of learning about the basics of it.

Again, without measurements of how far "out" your intonation is, it is difficult to discuss. A mm of change in string length will likely get you about 5 cents (5/100 of a semitone) or so. How much, depends on a bunch of factors. Getting the exact amount required for your guitar, your strings, your string length, your string height... is accomplished by trial and error, preferably in a controlled, rather than random fashion, and preferably with an electronic tuner calibrated in cents.

[hello people]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It's all very useful.

I recently got two books on the topic...both of which make methodical procedure difficult due to their layout and sequencing...they chop and change from acoustic to electric to nylon to steel setup. I'm yet to find an A-Z acoustic setup book. If anyone knows one let me know.

Youtube is a good resource but you need to tread with caution there. There's a lot of misinfo and outright wrong procedure mixed with good advice.

Unfortunately I don't have a decent tuner yet...just a cheap clip on digital one.

It's difficult to learn and yeah, trial and error might not be the best approach but at some stage I am going to have to take the first step. I don't have a shoulder I can look over or anyone to show me.

To all of you guys who have a good command of acoustic guitar setup no doubt the procedure is common sense and ingrained somewhat. But until recently I knew nothing.

So thanks for the information. I'm going to use it to assemble an A-Z approach.

Probably should get a decent tuner too I suppose.

Right, ok, thanks everyone.

[hello people]

To Ned Milburn....I'll take those measurements later and post them here

[hello people]

Originally Posted by fazool

OK, there is a lot of good advice given in these replies.

You mention that your guitar got exposed to excessive humidity. This can make the wood swell and affect your action and tone a little.

The first thing you want to do is get this stabilized between 45% and 55% RH. Wood takes a little while to stabilize so I would get this in place for a week, then go after your adjustments and setup.

Your action is fairly easy to setup on a Taylor NT neck guitar so you should get that in order, then evaluate your intonation and if the saddle compensation needs to be adjusted.

It's stabilized now, no problem and has been in even conditions for over a month

Originally Posted by hello people

I can answer my own question...they use bone...crushed bone...among other things..../QUOTE]

Taylor uses Tusq - a synthetic material.

I have no idea what you are saying when you say "fill a saddle" unless you mean fill in a worn spot or nut slot.

A brand new Tusq nut and Tusq saddle is what? $8 or $9 ? I would never ever waste time and mess "filling" anything.

Fill a saddle...I mean should you file too much off can you fill it back in with bone dust or something. But you are right...saddles are very cheap and there's no need to waste time filing in stuff.

Amateur here remember...complete novice. If my questions sound inane it's because I am stupid.

Regarding the setup I had done...very dubious about how good it was. Tom Lee...very generic chain music shop in Hong Kong...their service center is probably a long way from professional. Quite a few have commented that 11 gauge string and 12 gauge should not be that different in terms of intonation when swapped for one another. It seems likely that the guy who set my guitar up didn't know what he was doing beyond setting the action.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by hello people

If my questions sound inane it's because I am stupid.

I doubt that is the case.

Look up relevant videos by Robbie O'Brien on Youtube. Spend lots of time reading Frank Ford's site, frets.com. Both are a wealth of good information.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(spacer)#Applications

[hello people]

Yeah I've seen Robbie O'Brien's setup video. It looks good to me. Frank Ford will check out.

thanks

[capohk]

Tom Lee = butchered guitar.

[hello people]

Yeah no doubt there's a lot of truth in that...forgot to mention, the bloke at Tom Lee even took the neck off. I know that's not such a huge deal for Taylor guitars with the bolt on neck...but I dunno, may have been unnecessary. I'll never know what went on. This is why I want to learn set up for myself.

As a comical kind of conclusion to this thread...I recently bought a new tuner, it's a Snark something...so I put this tuner on and tune up...low and behold harmonic/ note matching for each string is very close. Most strings are bang on. I had adjusted the truss rod a few days earlier and my old tuner (some cheap clip on job) was telling me to buy a new guitar. With the new improved tuner the guitar tunes well.

For the last couple of days it's been playing beautifully. There are times when everything aligns with acoustics, I've found over the years, and they just feel supple and open and totally playable. Sometimes they can feel awkward and dead and stiff.

Not sure what made my GC5 all of a sudden come good. It could be the truss rod adjustments I made a few days ago or the new tuner allowing me to tune properly or a combo of both...or atmospheric conditions really stabilizing the guitar. I dunno.