Amplifying a bluegrass trio (Large Cardioid Condenser)

cu4life7 · #1 11-20-2017, 03:58 PM

Hi all. I am pretty new to mics and stuff, but I am starting a Bluegrass Trio and we plan on playing small venues (houses, coffee shops, etc). There will be two and three part harmonies and 3 instruments. While I would love to go traditional and one-mic-it, I am also a realist...

So I am considering a few options. Looking for suggestions for other stuff to look at, and look for. I am looking for nice warm vocals for 1 guy and 2 girls. Thanks.

Audio-Technica AT4033/CL
Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina (Stereo Pair most likely)
Ear Trumpet Labs Louise

Anything else I should consider? I am natually drawn to the design and aesthetic of the ETLabs models, but the cost is hard to swallow. I have access to instrument mics (2 Shure sm-57's) and an AT 5045 (I think) that I use with another project.

-Jacob

gfa · #2 11-21-2017, 11:59 AM

The ETL mics are very popular in the rootsy acoustic music world these days. For good reason, I think. We have a Josephine and I like it a lot.

troggg · #3 11-21-2017, 01:20 PM

ETL mics have a real likeable sonic quality and obvious visual impact, especially for bluegrass. I have an Edwina. The only "but" is in all the videos you've seen and love, some sound "guy" has done several things to insure there's no feedback. I found this out the hard way, since I bought my Edwina for live purposes but couldn't control her by myself without a sound guy -- which would be a sad story, but I like both recording with her and rehearsing with her.

Despite the fact there aren't a lot of high end components in ETL mics, they make me happy anyway. So I don't care. They just do something for combining voices and stringed instrument together in an organic way that mics costing many times more don't do as well at.

jimmorgan · #4 11-21-2017, 02:00 PM

I've done the single mic thing pretty extensively in a few different lineups and in a lot of different venues. For me, the large the venue, the better it works. Worst case scenario is your average small bar or coffee house, with lots of reflective surfaces and crowd noise, even then it can be done, just don't expect alot of volume. Outside works fantastic provided the wind isn't too bad, and large halls/stages are usually no problem.

I haven't used the ETL mics, but I've used a number of inexpensive to moderately priced condensers and they all work fine. Given your average sound system, I don't think the nuances of a particular mic are going to be that audible, what's more important is a consistent pattern of rejection, and most modern mics are going to give you that.

The secret to a good sound without feedback honestly is no monitors and a digital feedback eliminator. They are pretty inexpensive these days, so you might factor than into the cost of your mic setup. You end up either needing one, or you need a black up plan for when the venue isn't working out and you can't get the volume. I use a dbx afs2, but I get the impression most of them are good.

gfa · #5 11-21-2017, 02:22 PM

I'm the "sound guy" for our band, and I am figuring it out as I go along. For sure the attainable volume level with a single mic/LDC is lower than with a more conventional approach. Feedback elimination helps a lot. My mixer (Touchmix 8) has some excellent tools for taming feedback. DBX made an inexpensive little box called a GoRack that had a very effective feedback buster. Discontinued, but possibly available used/clearance.

I've never tried to A/B my ETL mic with others, but it sure sounds good to me. Setup is much easier than with a conventional approach. Most of all, it's just a fun way to play out.

sdelsolray · #6 11-21-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cu4life7

Hi all. I am pretty new to mics and stuff, but I am starting a Bluegrass Trio and we plan on playing small venues (houses, coffee shops, etc). There will be two and three part harmonies and 3 instruments. While I would love to go traditional and one-mic-it, I am also a realist...

So I am considering a few options. Looking for suggestions for other stuff to look at, and look for. I am looking for nice warm vocals for 1 guy and 2 girls. Thanks.

Audio-Technica AT4033/CL
Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina (Stereo Pair most likely)
Ear Trumpet Labs Louise

Anything else I should consider? I am natually drawn to the design and aesthetic of the ETLabs models, but the cost is hard to swallow. I have access to instrument mics (2 Shure sm-57's) and an AT 5045 (I think) that I use with another project.

-Jacob

You may wish to add the CAD M179 to your list. It's an inexpensive mic that lifts above its weight class. It has one great feature that should help your application - it has a variable polar pattern. With that, you can widen or narrow (in three dimensions) the area it will pickup.

troggg · #7 11-21-2017, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfa

I'm the "sound guy" for our band, and I am figuring it out as I go along. For sure the attainable volume level with a single mic/LDC is lower than with a more conventional approach. Feedback elimination helps a lot. My mixer (Touchmix 8) has some excellent tools for taming feedback. DBX made an inexpensive little box called a GoRack that had a very effective feedback buster. Discontinued, but possibly available used/clearance.

I've never tried to A/B my ETL mic with others, but it sure sounds good to me. Setup is much easier than with a conventional approach. Most of all, it's just a fun way to play out.

Like I said, the sound guy has to aware of several variables to use ETL mics. Didn't say it was mission impossible. Glad you've got it somewhat tamed, albeit with some additional tools that take time to learn and cost money to buy. I'm still wrapping my head around getting where I want to get as a performer being new to the solo thing, so it's not the right time to add additional complexity to the equation. But everyone's at a different place and everyone's needs are different.

I can tell you that as an audience member I sure like seeing ETL mics onstage and some pretty darned good musicians seem to gravitate to them. They also seem to help ensemble playing.

gfa · #8 11-21-2017, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troggg

Like I said, the sound guy has to aware of several variables to use ETL mics. Didn't say it was mission impossible. Glad you've got it somewhat tamed, albeit with some additional tools that take time to learn and cost money to buy. I'm still wrapping my head around getting where I want to get as a performer being new to the solo thing, so it's not the right time to add additional complexity to the equation. But everyone's at a different place and everyone's needs are different.

I can tell you that as an audience member I sure like seeing ETL mics onstage and some pretty darned good musicians seem to gravitate to them. They also seem to help ensemble playing.

Agree, on all points. For me, the ensemble playing thing is huge. We played out a couple of times using conventional close mic'ing and monitors. I didn't enjoy it very much. Playing around a single mic is close to what we do unmic'd at home on jam/practice night, and I enjoy it very much. Our band is on the jammy side (not well-rehearsed). It's great to have the visual communication that comes from standing together.

I'd love to have a dedicated sound person helping us, but we are not at that level.