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  #16  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:13 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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My experience is that it depends upon which pickup is in the guitar... I had Fishman UST pickups in both my Mark Angus 6 and 12 string guitars for nearly a decade, and I noticed no difference in the unplugged sound... and these guitars have been with me since 1979 and 1983, respectively. Playing music is my "career" and I am VERY familiar with those two guitars!

So, no change with the Fishman Matrix Acoustic Natural...

About 8 years ago, I had the LR Baggs Anthem SL system installed in both of those guitars, and I immediately noticed a HUGE change in the volume and tone of the 6 string Angus... not a good thing, not at all... however, I LOVED the "plugged in" tone of those pickup systems, so I have left them in the guitars - they are my "stage" guitars at this point, although they do get a lot of play outside gigging with them.

My suspicion (unproven) is that the UST portion of the Anthem is actually the LR Baggs "Element" pickup. It is covered in a flexible braided "wrap" that seems a bit "squishy" to the touch; took my Angus a good long time until that pickup was "squashed" into place... Over ~6-9 months, the 6 string finally "came back" to it's normal volume level, but the tone is still quite a bit different than it was prior to the Anthem...

SBT-type pickups don't seem to alter the tone in any way, shape or form... like the K&K PW, Dazzo, JJB or Trance Audio units.

Magnetic-type soundhole pickups "might" alter the sound just slightly, by virtue of something substantial clamped on to the soundboard of the guitar... I don't believe that the pickup "blocking" part of the soundhole diminishes the volume or tone, however...

So, yes... and no are your answers!
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:17 AM
stormin1155 stormin1155 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos View Post
Depends on the type of pickup. Under saddle pickups ... yes. With USTs manufacturers usually shy away from bone saddles and use plastic or tusq. Plus the fact the saddle does not make direct contact with the bridge.

This is not entirely true. There two forces acting on the saddle from the strings, downward pressure and lateral pressure pushing the saddle forward. With a UST there is no direct contact between the bottom of the saddle and the bridge, but there is still contact on the sides; the lateral pressure of the string pushes the saddle against the walls of the slot in the bridge.

The more that the saddle extends above the bridge, the greater this forward pressure. So if my theory is correct, the lower your saddle, the greater effect a UST will have on the sound.

Now, whether any difference is audible is the question. The other factor is how well the UST material transfers vibrations.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2017, 12:51 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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The main points I'm taking away from this conversation are as follows:
- For the most part there is no noticeable difference.
- Beware that some of the older and/or lower quality electrics may have tone issues when unplugged.
- Some aftermarket electronics may affect sound quality.
- Adjustments to bridges and/or saddles can remedy and/or improve sound quality.

If I've missed something, please let me know. I really appreciate all the input.

By the way, I hope to be playing my brother-in-laws old Martin D-41 over the holiday. This may not be significant to many folks, but for me it will be the first chance I've had to play a quality acoustic for a whole weekend!!!

Happy Thanksgiving!
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2017, 03:30 PM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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I added K&K's to two guitars and heard no difference.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:51 PM
lgherb lgherb is offline
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It might help to know what models you are considering so that members who have owned or played the respective "pure acoustic" or the "acoustic-electric" versions that you're focusing on can weigh in with their experiences of each and what it was that made them opt for their final decision.

Otherwise, the "answer" to the original question is probably as wide and varied as the differences in design, materials, and build qualities of any guitar model that has both an acoustic version and an acoustic-electric version of the 'same model' (though 'same model' in itself might be debatable).

The variance in how each guitar maker decides to build their finished product is a vast ocean.

On one end of the spectrum are acoustic guitars who have cut-outs (usually) in their sides to accommodate pre-amps and batteries. That most likely affects tone to some degree but that degree could depend on a myriad of design and material factors.

On the other end of the spectrum are acoustic guitars that have completely passive pick-up systems that need some kind of external pre-amp in the chain between the guitar and the speakers. In general, those designs probably have very little difference between an acoustic version and an acoustic-electric version, however, this also depends design and material factors.
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:38 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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I don't know about purpose-built AE's, but like others I have added SBT's to a total of 19 stringed instruments now, from fiddle to mando to banjo to guitar to upright bass. I've yet to hear any change in unplugged acoustic sound.

I believe that purpose built AE guitars with a barn door preamp and UST have a greater chance of having their acoustic tone altered compared to what they would sound like without these mods. I have no objective proof of this.
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:46 PM
jp2558 jp2558 is offline
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I have a Martin GPC-35E with built-in electronics. If that is your definition of acoustic-electric then I'd say the same guitar without the electronics, to my ears would be imperceptible.
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:59 PM
ozarkmac ozarkmac is offline
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Default Taylor 314CE

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgherb View Post
It might help to know what models you are considering so that members who have owned or played the respective "pure acoustic" or the "acoustic-electric" versions that you're focusing on can weigh in with their experiences of each and what it was that made them opt for their final decision.
I played about 12 or so different manufacturers and models while in Nashville at the Gruhn Guitar Store. This included Martin, Larrivee, Taylor, and a couple others. I tried to sample a couple price categories from each manufacturer just to see what the differences were.

First of all I quickly realized that for what I want, I'll need to be around the (new guitar) price of $1700 or more, which equates to about $1200 used.

I kept coming back to the Taylor 314CE (around $1700). It's an electric by the way. Really like the tone and feel right out of the box.

Played a Martin D-45 before I played anything else just to see what a high-end guitar was like and I prefer this Taylor over any of the Martin's I played. So far, I'm not a Martin person.

I'd like to hear from anyone which additional manufacturers or Taylor models I should check out since I am a fan of the 314CE. Thanks!
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:41 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
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Not that I can tell.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:43 PM
Samogitian Samogitian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarkmac View Post
I played about 12 or so different manufacturers and models while in Nashville at the Gruhn Guitar Store. This included Martin, Larrivee, Taylor, and a couple others. I tried to sample a couple price categories from each manufacturer just to see what the differences were.

First of all I quickly realized that for what I want, I'll need to be around the (new guitar) price of $1700 or more, which equates to about $1200 used.

I kept coming back to the Taylor 314CE (around $1700). It's an electric by the way. Really like the tone and feel right out of the box.

Played a Martin D-45 before I played anything else just to see what a high-end guitar was like and I prefer this Taylor over any of the Martin's I played. So far, I'm not a Martin person.

I'd like to hear from anyone which additional manufacturers or Taylor models I should check out since I am a fan of the 314CE. Thanks!
Taylor 314ce is an excellent guitar. As a rule the higher you go the better it gets - better woods, bracing, etc. 314ce body wood is sapele, it has forward shifted pattern with relief rout bracing. My 414ce-R has performance with relief rout bracing and the body is indian rosewood, which is an exception, because normally Taylors go rosewood starting with 7 series. Starting with 6 series it's advanced performance with relief rout bracing and goes all the way to the top.
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2017, 08:00 PM
L20A L20A is offline
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I got my wife a Taylor 410 and had a Matrix Natural UST installed in it.
After owning the guitar for about 10 years, I removed the pickup and replaced the saddle with bone.
I was surprised at how much better the guitar sounded with the new saddle and no UST.

Not sure how much of the difference was the new saddle and how much was the removal of the UST.
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