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  #16  
Old 07-13-2016, 12:36 AM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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Just to eliminate possibilities, check the tuners/truss rod cover, all bolts or screws. Anything loose has the possibility to create an unwanted sound. Also I suggest changing out the strings to see if another brand or set works better. Rare as they are, there can be a defect in a string that could somehow create unwanted sound. I'd try EB aluminium bronze strings. To me these strings accentuate certain registers that if after changing out, if the ring is still there, these strings may make it worse, which may be good for helping to pinpoint the source. And at a certain point it may make sense to have a luthier look at it. Just like every thing good, everything bad usually has a source, I wouldn't chalk it up to "that's the way it is" There is a fix out there somewhere, It's just staying with it and tracking it down.
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  #17  
Old 07-13-2016, 01:34 AM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
I know there are those that feel fallaway is not necessary, and maybe not, but I think with the lower action, and shorter scale, you may need just a pinch... talking about thousandths of an inch here...
+1.

Hold the E string down at the first fret and the last fret. If there is any gap between the string and the fret at the 14th, the upper frets need sanded.
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  #18  
Old 07-16-2016, 11:47 PM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
Tinnitus??

Hilarious. I developed tinnitus two years ago at age 47 and that's the first thing I thought when I saw the thread. But...we know that's not tinnitus. Tinnitus is a ringing wash over everything. BOO.

I did not truly read through the rest of the thread...but I always associated this problem with top bracing issues, back in the day, or maybe I remember having a guitar like this that was fixed by locating a loose brace.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:47 AM
Ron R Ron R is offline
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Hi, I absolutely hear your problem I have the same myself. Did you ever get it resolved. I'm getting a little fed up with people looking at me like I'm mad when I try to explain. VERY frustrating. Ron
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:00 AM
Trevor Gore Trevor Gore is offline
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I'd say what you're hearing is the longitudinal mode of vibration of the string (for the E string at least) coupling with the transverse mode. If it was easy to upload charts I'd show you, but...

To see for yourself, download the file as an MP3 using one of the free download apps. Drop the MP3 into Audacity (another free download), select the E string plucks, hit Analyze/Plot spectrum to see the spectrum. Audacity won't let you zoom the spectrum plot to see what is going on, so save it as a text file and load it into Excel and plot it out for the frequency range between 4kHz and 10kHz. You will see extra peaks in the spectrum plot which don't correspond with the transverse wave harmonic spacing (multiples of ~ 165Hz for your E string) at ~4kHz and ~8kHz which correspond to the first and second partials of a longitudinal wave in a piece of steel of length 650mm. (i.e. approximately your scale length). The speed of the longitudinal wave is given by SQRT(Youngs Modulus/Density), which for steel evaluates to ~5000 m/s (OK, 5182 m/s if you want detail), which then corresponds (velocity=freq. * wave length) to 1st and 2nd partial frequencies of ~4kHz and 8kHz and you can see spikes at those frequencies in the spectrum plot.

It takes longer to type this message than do the analysis...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
...It might be possible to say something if I could download that clip as a sound file, but maybe not. These things can drive you nuts, even when you have the guitar on the bench.
...once you know your way around all the different apps.

Fixing this on a plain string is pretty hard, because you have to find some way of suppressing that longitudinal wave whilst leaving the transverse one. Messing with different saddle materials may help.

Al might have some better ideas (dropping him right in it... )
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:40 AM
nitram nitram is online now
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I can't tell what you use to strike the strings but if you're finger-picking and using your nails ,I've experienced overtones of a high frequency, especially on the B and high E strings when doing that. Switching to a pick eliminated the sound. Maybe it's as simple as the density of the fingernails that creates a harmonic. It's an inexpensive cure if that is the culprit.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2017, 01:12 AM
Mr Fingers Mr Fingers is offline
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I've had this problem. Ned Milburn's list is excellent, and as far as I can tell you have not addressed all the possibilities he lists. In my experience, a too-flat saddle has been the cause of unwanted wolf tones as the string vibrates against the flat surface at more than one point. This can be hard to spot, but it is absolutely a source for "off" tones. And flat frets do the same thing. Again, it is not enough just to polish them or raise the action because it is the flat profile that gives multiple contact points and off tones that result. Flat frets need to be crowned, and crowned correctly. And, finally, the nut can be a problem if the angle of the grooves is off. Even when the note ir fretted, vibrations can still pass through the string and cause unpleasant sounds. These off tones are maddening, but very real and very ugly and unmusical. It is essential to track them down. Good luck. It can be super tricky. In my case, that too-flat saddle top looked fine when eyeballed, but, well -- it wasn't.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2017, 08:21 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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What strings were you using before you noticed this ?
Does going back to those strings eliminate this ?
If so , what is the difference in the strings ?
If this is your issue , it may simply come down to the extra thickness of a coated string or a heavier/thicker string that uses the same thickness coating .
Should this be your issue , a widening of the slot in the nut may cure it .
I would also make sure that there is no loose or foreign material in the nut slot regardless of size . In other words , I would make absolutely sure that the slot is clean .
I had this exact issue rear it's ugly head for me recently . Traces of nut material were still in the slot causing exactly what you are experiencing . Drove me nuts until it showed itself to me when changing strings .
Good luck and happy hunting .
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2017, 08:25 AM
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fazool fazool is online now
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This thread was asked a year ago and the OP hasn't been back since, so you're probably not going to be able to help him out but maybe can help ron.
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  #25  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:17 PM
Rhythmdoctor Rhythmdoctor is offline
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My Gibson AJ is doing this exact same thing. I had about $400 worth of work done on it back in August and I think it's related. It's so annoying and I feel the OP's pain. Taking it in today and hoping the shop will resolve this for free. I called them and they gave me the whole... 'well, we did the work in July' bit. I'm like, yeah but I've had this guitar for 16 years and never had this happen until now. Unfortunately for me, after I got the guitar back in August, I haven't really played it much which is why I just started noticing this in November. Anyways, good suggestions in here. I'll update if/when I know what the fix is.
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2019, 12:45 AM
Shaneh Shaneh is offline
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I have a similar problem with my X20 but on the b string 3rd fret. Took it gryphon and they said just a harmonic sympathy of the guitar. Also not what I wanted hear either. I tried using a bigger b string and it helped a bit but not 100%. Might try the next size up string gauge
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  #27  
Old 01-31-2019, 05:30 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is offline
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Sorry if I've been away from his one. Trevor Gore wrote:
"I'd say what you're hearing is the longitudinal mode of vibration of the string (for the E string at least) coupling with the transverse mode. "

From what you say in the OP that sounds plausible: it shows up most on the open string, but also prominently on other notes up to the fourth fret or so. The longitudinal wave in the string is a compression wave that is not necessarily related in pitch to the note the string is tuned to. Commonly it's up around the 7th or 8th partial of guitar strings. It's most likely to be a problem when the pitch matches one of the overtones of the string exactly. The pitch of the longitudinal wave depends more on the material and construction of the string and it's length than anything else, so the remedy for the problem is to change one of those. Since the pitch match has to be really exact to be a problem, it might not take much of a change.

So, there's not much you can do about the scale length of the string, but you might be able to get someplace with the vibrating length. That is, it's infeasible to change the fret spacing, but you might be able to get a slight change in the vibrating length of the string by compensating the nut and saddle. The fact that the problem seems to peter out above the fourth fret suggests it might do the trick.

This is a problem with wound D strings on Classical guitars, and it can sometimes be remedied by changing the density of the winding a little. As you tighten the string the winding tends to unwind, with more space opening up between the turns. If you remove one end of the string and twist it in such a way as to wind the winding up a bit that can change the final spacing once it's been reinstalled and tightened, and solve the problem. I've never tried this with a wound steel string.

Different brands of strings might use slightly different core and winding sizes. You can make a .030" string with a .015" core and .0075" winding, or .014" core and .008" winding, for example. With the relatively heavier winding the latter would have a lower longitudinal wave pitch. You might get a good result by changing the gauge of the G, although that might make balance an issue. There's not much you can do with a plain string along those lines, though.
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  #28  
Old 03-27-2021, 06:12 AM
youngniels youngniels is offline
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Hi t1mpow
I have the exact same problem as you describe so precise. I have been searching for a long time for a solution to this metallic high pitch ringing on the open g-string. Have you found any more answers? I find that it is actually getting worse when I tune the guitar down one step to D-tuning as I often do. I believe the guy talking about saddle break being too rounded, or the nut slot is slightly undercut, is on to something, but it is difficult to find a luthier who is experienced enough to fix it...
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  #29  
Old 03-27-2021, 06:15 AM
youngniels youngniels is offline
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Hi Jessup
I have the exact same problem as you describe so precise. I have been searching for a long time for a solution to this metallic high pitch ringing on the open g-string. Have you found any more answers? I find that it is actually getting worse when I tune the guitar down one step to D-tuning as I often do. I believe the guy talking about saddle break being too rounded, or the nut slot is slightly undercut, is on to something, but it is difficult to find a luthier who is experienced enough to fix it...
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2021, 03:41 PM
GrandpaBucky GrandpaBucky is offline
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I'm glad to see this subject made it to 2021 so I'm not replying to zombies. My Bourgeois Vintage D had a ringing noise on the High E when back-picked in one half inch long location between the hole and the bridge. I tightened the neck bolts, cleaned nut slots, made sure the truss wasn't at a neutral setting, tightened tuners, changed strings, checked string height. I actually removed my LR Baggs Lyric system to eliminate that as a contributor. I finally went to an excellent luthier, we thought he got it but when I got home it was back.

While he was working on it the luthier told the joke, Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I move my arm like this." Doctor: "Well then, don't do that any more." It turns out there was more wisdom than you'd think in that remark.

BTW, yes I have tinnitus. That ringing is constant so not a variable to the best of my knowledge. Little known fact, tinnitus occurs in the brain, not in the actual ears.

Anyway, got home only to find the ringing was back so in disgust, I listed the guitar and sold it. A week later I bought a Martin J-40. I truly believe this guitar is, "The One." I get home, grab a .73 pick and start rocking out, something I did not do at the store. I back-picked the high E and there it was again, the same exact ringing noise. Aargh! Pretty funny, when you think about it.

I researched picks and discovered many bluegrass pickers prefer 100 mil and heavier picks so I got some to replace my .73 picks. That knocked back the ringing noise quite a bit but was not perfect.

I gave it some more thought and it occurred to me that through years of electric guitar playing I had developed a very bad habit of resting my palm on the bridge so I could palm mute. With that as an anchor point, I invariably was picking in the same exact location every time. By getting my palm off the bridge the problem went away. The luthier was right when he joked, "Don't do that any more."

Not only did the ringing go away, so did that annoying squeaking noise from my palm resting on the bridge pins.

I had also decided that rather than drill and install a strap peg in the guitar heel like I usually do, I would do like Elvis and Johnny Cash and try strapping at the headstock. One unintentional benefit of that, this allowed the guitar to shift farther to the right. Coupling that with getting my palm off the bridge resulted in a huge benefit, I found out where the best overtones and volume reside in a J-40 and it is definitely not where I had been picking. Just over the sound hole near the end of the neck is where it gets really good. If I move another inch, I get less volume but more overtones picking above the last two frets on the neck. There are also some magical but slightly metallic tones when plucked above the 9th fret.

Anyway, since I moved my picking location I have pretty much forgotten about the ringing noise and have now begun a whole new voyage of discovery.
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