New Bose L1 Compact!

[Midnight Shadow]

I will be looking for the Bose Compact and trying to compare it to the Fishman which I liked.
Midnight Shadow

[dcopper]

All of the talk about the Bose Compact made me go back to the basics and set up my BOSE Model 1 Classic and crank it up at home this weekend. The full and liquid sound of the BOSE reminded me of why I became a supporter in the first place. I plugged into various other gear at home and nothing spread the sound of my guitars and vocals around like the BOSE. I went straight in with a T5 on the (downloaded version) T5 preset and an OM5 in for vocals ("00" flat preset), no effects and nothing else in the signal chain. I cut the mids on the BOSE eq to about 9 o'clock for the guitar and cranked the volume. It was still great, just like the first time.

My interest in the Compact has been simply one of convenience. If I can get the same spread of sound from a more portable system, I can live with the trade-offs. I am not sure, however, since the guitar channel lacks eq, if that will work for me. I really have come full circle to avoid additional gear in the chain... my guitar straight into the GB Compak300, vocals straight in as well.
There are many who subscribe to BOSE's claim that you don't really need reverb with their system. I believe that vocals are fine without additional 'verb but I always liked a touch of delay. The BOSE Compact allows the "line" in for a mixer and that would solve the problem. I don't need the T1 module, and I have preamps, eq's and the removable preamp/head for the GB Compak300. OF course, when I bought the BOSE as it came out on the scene, I bought it just for portability and convenience (no more monitors, speaker stands, extra cabling, power amps, etc.). Now it could be a viable reason to, in a sense, trade down. For all of us, that is a good sign, that new gear is being designed for power and portability.

The final factor is that, in difficult venues, like strange shaped bars with high tin ceilings, outside parking lots for benefits, a school auditorium seating 750 people, the BOSE has worked and worked well. I had no seller's remorse dumping my traditional gear.

It would take solid convincing though for me to give up the Model 1 Classic for the new Compact. The one thing I would not accept as a trade off would be tone.

davidc

[kramster]

It will be interesting for sure to see how it matches up... I hope it is so close that I just have to have it. (Aren't I the practical one)

[aboutjack]

Saw this thread on the new Bose non-line array product, and thought I'd jump in with a status report on the long-gestating BagAmp.

We now have pre-production units built from production tooling that we are showing very privately, and using to do final tweaks to the sound, fit, and finish details. We will do a limited mass production run in late April, and air freight a few units to the U.S. for sales channel and evangelist units. The first on-sale units will arrive in late May by sea freight. So, we'll begin shipping initial web and dealer orders then.

We just did a private showing to EU dealers at Musikmesse, with solid approval for the sound quality (my number one priority). And, we're doing a full gig at the Summer NAMM Show in Nashville in July. Several touring guitarists will have units in early May, so web reviews and product videos will begin appearing about then.

For skeptics, yeah... BagAmp's a very real product. I have just had to do it with virtually no money, battling the challenges of implementing the first use of the unique composite enclosure system, and of the unique flat face diaphragm loudspeakers. I owe my business partners, Mike Collins here in Nashville, and our China manufacturing partner, an inexpressible degree of gratitude for making this dream possible.

The final product is as true to the plan as possible, with virtually no compromises. The all-new technology 3-inch drivers have the linear/coherent surface area of typical 4.5 to 5 inch drivers, and sound just amazing. No turn-on thump. No hiss. Butter smooth pots and switchgear. All the expected elements of a durable, pro product. The rigid composite enclosure is... well, rigid and durable. And really, really lightweight, too.

Final retail price is $699. Amp power is 220 Watts (continuous). Sorry, but cost creep did it's thing, as we refused every time an option crept up to go with a lower cost detail in the design. Inside and out we chose "quality" in each instance.

The companion BagAmp Sub is being released, too, at $499 retail. It uses an 8-inch flat face driver that has the coherent surface area of a typical 12-inch subwoofer, with a 300 Watt (continuous) amp. It's not needed (at all) for acoustic guitar/vocals. But, we anticipate many users wanting to put one or two BagAmps into service as their main PA, and the Sub product makes that possible for all instruments. A pair of BagAmps and Subs can be hauled by two guys (or one really brawny guy) in one trip, set up in about 2-minutes, and fill any normal venue with rocking good sound. ... at a cost less than a single full Bose PAS setup.

Other BagAmp line products will continue to appear going into the Christmas season this year.

All product details will be released very soon. Thanks for the patience from the acoustic guitar community as we've fought through all the challenges to get to this stage.

And note: Collins America is a general product design and development company that provides services across all ranges of consumer products. So, of course, there are other products in the portfolio than music products. However, the BagAmp brand products are an entirely unique venture inside the company, designed, managed, and manufactured by music guys... for music guys.

I look forward to when all three of these novel portable PA products can be credibly compared side by side. We're actually considering having all three products in our NAMM booth in July, just to make it clear which is the better option. :-)

Jack
Collins America

[TwinandTwang]

Originally Posted by zb0430

Irony? ... I'll take my preamp over anything the Bose unit has to offer...

Accepting TRS cables in the input solves that problem, for sure! I'm unsure as to why they didn't chose to go with a universal connector that accepts an array of choices...

That is good news for preamp users and ES users alike.

My point was that the Bose wasn't as good as your preamp. Their strong suit is in marketing, not sound or build quality. I saw irony in taking a high end guitar, pickup, pre-amp etc...whatever the rig -and connecting to a Bose PA which IMHO is not capable of rendering the finer qualities of the instrument.

[open-road-matt]

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the Bose forum over the fact that there is no phantom power on either channel.

Again, I am trying to remain open minded but for me that and the fact there is no EQ on the guitar channel makes the T1 an absolute necessity for the L1 Compact.

Originally Posted by TwinandTwang

My point was that the Bose wasn't as good as your preamp. Their strong suit is in marketing, not sound or build quality.

TwinandTwang,
What do you recommend instead?

Matt

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the Bose forum over the fact that there is no phantom power on either channel.

Again, I am trying to remain open minded but for me that and the fact there is no EQ on the guitar channel makes the T1 an absolute necessity for the L1 Compact.

TwinandTwang,
What do you recommend instead?

Matt

Many guitarists plug in to a guitar-oriented preamp equalizer before plugging in to an amplifier. For them, typical 3 band equalization controls on the amp or PA are redundant. For others, the absence of such controls on the T1 Compact might be an issue.

What percentage of solo performers use microphones that require a voltage supply? Most use dynamic microphones like the SM58 and N/D767. Still, I'd rather have the option of being able to use something like the SM81.

[TwinandTwang]

I would look at Mackie, JBL, EAW... I haven't priced this stuff in a while .
We bought 4 Mackie powered ( 2 for main 2 for monitor) a Mackie CFX12MKII board w bag, stands w bag for about $1900 last year new @ GC. I think it's better. And if you are into prosound (I am on a budget) the sky is the limit.

[Earthworm]

There will always be compromises when reducing size of a system. I am willing to accept some degredation of my sound for ease of transport/setup. I am not a purist. Frankly, I don't think I can get the best sound out of any system because I am horrible at tweaking knob. I'm kind of a plug-n-play guy. That is my fault, no doubt.

I've loved my Bose L1 Model 2 because it is mostly plug and play. I have the T1 and like it. I'd use it with the compact system.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Many guitarists plug in to a guitar-oriented preamp equalizer before plugging in to an amplifier. For them, typical 3 band equalization controls on the amp or PA are redundant. For others, the absence of such controls on the T1 Compact might be an issue.

If the idea and the appeal of the L1 Compact is simplicity which I thought (perhaps erroneously) that it was, don't you loose a lot of that appeal if you need an external preamp/EQ to accomplish the most basic of adjustments?

When I used what many would consider the world's greatest acoustic guitar preamp/EQ (The Pendulum SPS-1) with my Bose I would still take a -7.0 db cut on the mids and use the para EQ on the T1 to take a -7.0 db cut at 440Hz. Those cuts were unnecessary on other systems.

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

What percentage of solo performers use microphones that require a voltage supply? Most use dynamic microphones like the SM58 and N/D767. Still, I'd rather have the option of being able to use something like the SM81.

I would guess that many of the people currently playing through a standard L1 are using a condenser mic for some of their shows. There is tons of condenser mic talk on the Bose forum. The neat thing about the L1 is that you hear exactly what you sound like every time you play. When I started using my L1 I had the desire to improve every aspect of my live sound. It is because of Bose and the L1 that use a Neumann KMS-105 as my main vocal mic as often as possible. If I got an L1 Compact I couldn't use that mic without an external phantom power supply.

Everyone has different needs and wants but I can't figure out why these options aren't part of the L1 Compact! How many acoustic guitar amps or small sound systems are being manufactured without the options of EQ controls or phantom power? Not too many that I've ever seen and I don't think there are any that are being touted as something a singer/guitarist can use in a performance situation.

Either:
1) The L1 Compact has some magic to it that once I hear it/play through it, all my doubts will be put to rest.
2) I have totally misinterpreted the target market of the L1 Compact.
or
3) These very standard options of phantom power and basic EQ were left off in order to make the T1 a necessity for most gigging musicians who plan to use the L1 Compact in a wide variety of venues.

I really hope it's number 1.

Matt

[jackweasel]

BINGO!!! That's what it's all about. I've been using my model 1 for years now and the features left off of the compact model REQUIRE the T-1 to make it work like mine [or at least CLOSE to mine]. Granted I'd like to have the T-1 but $500 is a lot to pay for what I already have with my add-ons.
my advise... suck it up and buy the real deal. You'll be glad you did.

[kramster]

If I try a Compact I'll just use my T1 with it. Don't see a need to buy the second if this thing works at all.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by aboutjack

Saw this thread on the new Bose non-line array product, and thought I'd jump in with a status report on the long-gestating BagAmp.

We now have pre-production units built from production tooling that we are showing very privately, and using to do final tweaks to the sound, fit, and finish details. We will do a limited mass production run in late April, and air freight a few units to the U.S. for sales channel and evangelist units. The first on-sale units will arrive in late May by sea freight. So, we'll begin shipping initial web and dealer orders then.

We just did a private showing to EU dealers at Musikmesse, with solid approval for the sound quality (my number one priority). And, we're doing a full gig at the Summer NAMM Show in Nashville in July. Several touring guitarists will have units in early May, so web reviews and product videos will begin appearing about then.

For skeptics, yeah... BagAmp's a very real product. I have just had to do it with virtually no money, battling the challenges of implementing the first use of the unique composite enclosure system, and of the unique flat face diaphragm loudspeakers. I owe my business partners, Mike Collins here in Nashville, and our China manufacturing partner, an inexpressible degree of gratitude for making this dream possible.

The final product is as true to the plan as possible, with virtually no compromises. The all-new technology 3-inch drivers have the linear/coherent surface area of typical 4.5 to 5 inch drivers, and sound just amazing. No turn-on thump. No hiss. Butter smooth pots and switchgear. All the expected elements of a durable, pro product. The rigid composite enclosure is... well, rigid and durable. And really, really lightweight, too.

Final retail price is $699. Amp power is 220 Watts (continuous). Sorry, but cost creep did it's thing, as we refused every time an option crept up to go with a lower cost detail in the design. Inside and out we chose "quality" in each instance.

The companion BagAmp Sub is being released, too, at $499 retail. It uses an 8-inch flat face driver that has the coherent surface area of a typical 12-inch subwoofer, with a 300 Watt (continuous) amp. It's not needed (at all) for acoustic guitar/vocals. But, we anticipate many users wanting to put one or two BagAmps into service as their main PA, and the Sub product makes that possible for all instruments. A pair of BagAmps and Subs can be hauled by two guys (or one really brawny guy) in one trip, set up in about 2-minutes, and fill any normal venue with rocking good sound. ... at a cost less than a single full Bose PAS setup.

Other BagAmp line products will continue to appear going into the Christmas season this year.

All product details will be released very soon. Thanks for the patience from the acoustic guitar community as we've fought through all the challenges to get to this stage.

And note: Collins America is a general product design and development company that provides services across all ranges of consumer products. So, of course, there are other products in the portfolio than music products. However, the BagAmp brand products are an entirely unique venture inside the company, designed, managed, and manufactured by music guys... for music guys.

I look forward to when all three of these novel portable PA products can be credibly compared side by side. We're actually considering having all three products in our NAMM booth in July, just to make it clear which is the better option. :-)

Jack
Collins America

This is the update that I have been waiting for...thanks for this public announcement, Jack.

...now, I'll just have to wait another 6-10 weeks for the real thing to hit the streets, and for my ears to be able to give this a listen.

If I understand things correctly, getting "full function" for a solo guitarist (like myself) or a singer-songwriter does *not* require the sub? That's what you've stated above, but I just wanted to ask for clarity...and I apologize if this is redundant.

[open-road-matt]

I think those who have read my posts know of my staunch support of the L1. I've been a huge fan of it for several years and I've listed my reasons why many times.

I was not feeling good about the lack of EQ controls and lack of phantom power on the L1 Compact. Those seemed like pretty standard features and when I had asked about the lack of EQ and seen others ask about the lack of phantom power on the Bose forum no one from Bose had directly addressed their absence.

But I just got a very nice post back from one of the fellows at Bose and got what I think is a great answer. To paraphrase, he basically said they went for simple and easy to use knowing that it would work as is, on its own for many. For those of us who need more, we still probably wouldn't have been happy with the one or two more features they could have added and the T1 covers all that is missing from the L1C for most folks.

That is my shortened version. I didn't want to quote him without asking. I can respect that. He's right in saying that no matter what they put on the thing there will be someone saying, "how come you didn't put all of that plus x, y and z on there?"

I do have a T1 which I could certainly use with an L1 Compact so mainly this was a quest for information. It didn't make sense to me and I wanted to figure it out. So now I have my answer and I'll patiently wait for a chance to tinker with one!

Matt

[Larry Pattis]

Matt,

I also have a T1 (now!)...I'm anxious to try the BagAmp with the T1,and conversely with my other "normal" external gear, such as my Highlander PADMI and Dr. Scientist Radical Red Reverberator.

...and I agree with the simple L1 Compact design, in fact. I'm less anxious to try the Compact, because I am pretty happy with my Model II right now!

It's great that we'll have the various Bose L1 models, the SoloAmp, and soon (I hope) the BagAmp to contrast and compare.

It's a great time for great guitars, and our world of amplificaion is finally providing some diverse choices of really well thought out equipment...