New Bose L1 Compact!

[alohachris]

Aloha Friends,

I've been reading this discussion with great interest and respect for all you old pros. Very civil and informative thread with so much expertise. I hope people who are shopping for a new rig or newbies who don't know what's out there check in with this. Fantastic!

Matt, it's good to finally get some details about how your Florida tour went sonically. Your point about people having, as Sdelsoray would say, "different purposes" leaves the door open for opposing opinions about different systems in different settings, especially as BOSE goes after the SA market here with a unit seemingly lacking in EQ controls.

I can't help but admire the way you move quickly in purchasing and quickly assessing whether signal chain parts work for your music, chain and portability requirements. So much info. Thanks for taking us along for the ride here.

Sounds like the new Bose will provide another great rationale for incorporating a good preamp into ANY signal chain. (Matt, you'll probably be kicking yourself later for losing that SPS-1, though none of us can afford to keep anything we're not using anymore, right?)

The point that there are "several good acoustic amps available that are better than the BOSE L11" is debatable, especially if your're using two Bose towers as I have. I still haven't heard a single source amp sound better than a good quality dual source speaker system in many venues that I play. As Matt said, the coverage on those just isn't there.

As it's progressed this discussion comes to the same conclusion: that acoustic guitar amplification never totally satisfies all applications or players. It's finding, as Matt has, what works for our gigs and venues - our purposes - that is the challenge.

I can't help but say that I AM COMPLETELY HAPPY with my Pendulum/ Daedalus dream live rig. I dial in the sound and control I want in all styles and venues easily. I deal with the pau-gig schelpp but it's not that bad.

Now, about computer recording with a Digidesign 003 rack and ProTools 8..... that's where my learning curve currently is.

All the best guys and thanks for a most throught-provoking, informative and civil discussion in anticipation of the new Bose.

Mahalo a nui,
alohachris

[kramster]

Nice of you to stop by our Bose talkin' oh great SPS Man alohachris. I have my own SPS-1 now (yes it is pretty much your fault) and am having at it with different guitars and amps and things.. Excellent thing indeed and as a bonus saved enough on it used to nab a new Mini-Me Bose (when nabage is possible)
Maybe someday I'll try some Daedalus ear candy and be the alohakramster of the Valley of the Sun.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Sounds like the new Bose will provide another great rationale for incorporating a good preamp into ANY signal chain. (Matt, you'll probably be kicking yourself later for losing that SPS-1, though none of us can afford to keep anything we're not using anymore, right?)

Hey alohachris!
Good to hear from you as always. It's funny the day after I sold my SPS-1 I was doing some equipment testing with some folks, one of them the fellow who bought my SPS-1. We were trying some different signal chains etc. One of the things we tried took the SPS-1 out of the signal chain. Then we put it back in. Of course the difference was astonishing. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a touch of seller's remorse.

The way I see it is this: The SPS-1 just wasn't working for me with where I am in my career. I value ease of transport and simplicity over fantastic tone. If (I'd like to say when) I get to the point in my career where I am touring small theaters, listening rooms, concerts, etc. and I'm working with competent sound people, (maybe even roadies and guitar techs ) I'll be ready for the SPS-1. (please understand that I am in no way saying everyone needs to be at this level before they should use an SPS-1. This is just me personally) And when I reach that point, I don't envision it being too difficult to afford another one!

Enjoy the day!
Matt

P.S. Some of the replies I've gotten from the folks at Bose on the Bose forum have told me that I shouldn't need to EQ my guitar and thus can plug straight in. I can't imagine how that could be but I'm keeping an open mind.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

...P.S. Some of the replies I've gotten from the folks at Bose on the Bose forum have told me that I shouldn't need to EQ my guitar and thus can plug straight in. I can't imagine how that could be but I'm keeping an open mind.

I've just finished experimenting with an Expression System equipped grand concert for almost a month and the most accurate amplified sound I achieved was with the controls set flat on both the guitar and the mixer. Of course, in different room acoustics or speakers might make necessitate some adjustment.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I've just finished experimenting with an Expression System equipped grand concert for almost a month and the most accurate amplified sound I achieved was with the controls set flat on both the guitar and the mixer. Of course, in different room acoustics or speakers might make necessitate some adjustment.

I'm keeping an open mind about the no EQ thing on the guitar channel but I'm suspicious. Even with my Pendulum I would still need to do quite a bit of subtractive EQ on my T1 with my Bose L1 Model 2.

I'd get everything set the way I wanted it on my Pendulum using headphones. Then, on my Bose T1, I'd take a -8.0 db cut on the mids and use the Para EQ to take a-7.0 db cut at 440Hz. When I'd play through house systems the sound person could just leave my guitar channel flat!

So that is what my guitar needed, for my ears, through my L1. That is why I can't imagine going without EQ.

With my Taylor 810ce, I use the Dreadnought Strum guitar preset, take a -5.0 - -7.0 db cut on the mids, sometimes adjust the highs and lows depending on the venue and still use the Para to make the same cut mentioned above.

I hope it's true, that we don't need to EQ our guitars but it sure is a nice option to have! Especially when the only EQ preset loaded into the Compact is for a piezo pickup. (I'd probably be plugging in an ES equipped Taylor)

Matt

[alohachris]

Aloha Friends,

Matt, I've got to hand it to you, a true touring, road gigger, to cut Bose that much slack about their new unit's "no need for EQ'ing an acoustic guitar."

When I read that my BS deflector went Schaawwwiiinnnng!

Bose must be hiding a "terrible design flaw" as Sdelsolray called the lack of EQ. Smoke-screening it. Or maybe it's a joke and the new unit actually has true parametric EQ or a four-frequency semi-para with sweepable mids.

Sure, theoreticallly we all try to be subtractive in the real EQ world. BUT... it's not about control options for a guitar - it's all about controlling a guitar's freqency in a ROOM OR SPACE FULL OF PEOPLE! And those dynamics are ever-changing, even from hour to hour with crowds.

So how you gonna get by with the new BOSE's lack of EQ? Obviously, it'll need a good preamp with great EQ for a player to survive the feedback wars.

Matt, as you learn more from BOSE, please pass it on. But I'm not going over to their discussion just yet because I'm sure that I wouldn't be able to keep a civil "keyboard" if I joined in.

What's your gut say, Matt? Anyone else smell a lemon here?

alohachris

[kramster]

Don't think tis a lemon, it is just the way they wanted to make it.... They no doubt want folks to buy the T1 as well... which is half again the price. Like using a Cub 100 or basic amped speaker I guess...gotta add some EQ... but the Bose has a wee more then the basics.
I will probably need my SPS-1 with it if I try one... and I will try one, knowing me and my control...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I'm keeping an open mind about the no EQ thing on the guitar channel but I'm suspicious. Even with my Pendulum I would still need to do quite a bit of subtractive EQ on my T1 with my Bose L1 Model 2.

I'd get everything set the way I wanted it on my Pendulum using headphones. Then, on my Bose T1, I'd take a -8.0 db cut on the mids and use the Para EQ to take a-7.0 db cut at 440Hz. When I'd play through house systems the sound person could just leave my guitar channel flat!

So that is what my guitar needed, for my ears, through my L1. That is why I can't imagine going without EQ.

With my Taylor 810ce, I use the Dreadnought Strum guitar preset, take a -5.0 - -7.0 db cut on the mids, sometimes adjust the highs and lows depending on the venue and still use the Para to make the same cut mentioned above.

I hope it's true, that we don't need to EQ our guitars but it sure is a nice option to have! Especially when the only EQ preset loaded into the Compact is for a piezo pickup. (I'd probably be plugging in an ES equipped Taylor)

Matt

My point was that I haven't found a need to alter the output of the Expression System. I don't mean to suggest that something about the Bose L1 Compact makes equalization unnecessary. Anyone who has felt the need to use equalization when using reasonably accurate speakers is likely to still feel that need when using the L1 Compact.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by alohachris

What's your gut say, Matt? Anyone else smell a lemon here?

The weird thing is, Bose doesn't need to make a lemon. They are certainly not a fly by night outfit looking to jump into the small sound system market and make a quick buck. They have the tools, the research, etc. to put out a product that works. As one of the Bose guys said on the Bose Forum, they can't afford not to put out something that's a winner. I have to withhold judgment until I try it.

Originally Posted by kramster

Don't think tis a lemon, it is just the way they wanted to make it.... They no doubt want folks to buy the T1 as well... which is half again the price.

kramster,
That was my first thought, that they wanted people to almost have to buy the T1. But if they wanted that, and that was their main reason for leaving the EQ off of the guitar channel, wouldn't they have put a T1 port on the base of the Compact?

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

My point was that I haven't found a need to alter the output of the Expression System. I don't mean to suggest that something about the Bose L1 Compact makes equalization unnecessary. Anyone who has felt the need to use equalization when using reasonably accurate speakers is likely to still feel that need when using the L1 Compact.

I totally understand Herb. I was just saying that I really do need to EQ my guitar. There is something about my playing style that requires a healthy mid cut and I'm just a bit worried about anything that doesn't let me do that.

Matt

[kramster]

Gotta admit... the Bose gang sure know how to market this thing... look how they have us working it... nice play, but I feel used somehow....and... I still want to try it.

[alnico5]

No reverb and no effects loop to add it? For me this Bose product is DOA.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by alnico5

No reverb and no effects loop to add it? For me this Bose product is DOA.

For you, perhaps...I prefer simplicity.

If you've got any kind of reasonably decent external pre-amp you will be able to have EQ and any reverb you'd like.

It may defeat the portability-factor (because you've then got to tote extra gear), but building in too much stuff has always annoyed me...

[Guitaardvaark]

I had plugged the OM45 into a marshall acoustic amp today and the sales guy says here try this bose system out man it rocks for acoustic guitars..well after unplugging the marshall and using the bose for a few,the sales guy had something else to do ,so I plugged the marshall back in...I love my Bose 5.1 on my comp at home but I must say the bose left me wanting some bass and I couldnt find it anywhere on that system

Ill stick with my rivera sedonas for now , heavy as they are and very heavy they are

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Guitaardvaark

I had plugged the OM45 into a marshall acoustic amp today and the sales guy says here try this bose system out man it rocks for acoustic guitars..well after unplugging the marshall and using the bose for a few,the sales guy had something else to do ,so I plugged the marshall back in...I love my Bose 5.1 on my comp at home but I must say the bose left me wanting some bass and I couldnt find it anywhere on that system

Ill stick with my rivera sedonas for now , heavy as they are and very heavy they are

Did the Bose system you tried have the bass module? The L1 Model I was available without it in which case there would be no useable output below 110 Hz (the low E of a guitar is approximately 82 Hz). With the base module the bass response extends well below a guitar's lowest note. The L1 Compact has a useable response down to 65 Hz.

[kramster]

Guys use the Bose as a bass amp too and I can get amazing deep clean rich bass with my synths,,
Rivera Sedona(s).....nice.