Question about bone bridgepins.

[cspencer]

Originally Posted by The Old Anglo

Please let me know how the Colosi pins work,I buy from him too..Great guy!!. Thanks!!.

My pins arrived today from Bob. Wow what a difference!!! Louder, clearer and no annoying overtones. Did someone say Gibson sustain with added weight? Well, I can see the strings vibrating along fret 7 and 12. Never saw that before. Did I mention sustain? Yup, sustain!!!! And harmonics!!!

I have used bone pins before and it killed my sound. Muted everything. But Bob's pins are different. Looks nicer too.

[AA&E]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

I don't see how bridge pins could affect the sound really. They are just holding the strings in, after the bridge.

The only thing I can think of, is how it could affect the reverberation of the top of the guitar.

I've gone from plastic to tusq bridge pins on one of my guitars, and noticed no difference.

I agree with this thought process. The saddle and nut are the tone transmission points on open strings. Saddle and frets on fretted strings. I don't personally believe bridge pins could have any more effect on tone then new tuners. While heavier tuners can improve tone this is due to added mass in the neck. You aren't going to see a significant increase in weight from bridge pins, and I am not sure weight in the bridge area would be an improvement to begin with. Added weight could possibly restrict movement of the top and dampen tone rather then enhance it.

EDIT - Just read Alan's post on weight in the bridge area. I couldn't agree more. Excellent post Alan and thanks for sharing that.

[Alan Carruth]

AA&E wrote:
"I don't personally believe bridge pins could have any more effect on tone then new tuners. While heavier tuners can improve tone this is due to added mass in the neck."

Actually.....

It is possible in some cases to make a noticeable difference in the tone of a guitar by swapping out tuners, or even just switching from metal to wood buttons. And it's not simply that 'heavier tuners reduce neck motion': it's possible, in fact that they could give you more neck motion. As usual, it has to do with the way the resonances of the different parts of the guitar line up.

The lowest pitched resonant mode that can actually put out sound effectively is the 'main air' (A-0)resonance. This works sort of like blowing across the mouth of a wine bottle: the air flows in and out of the soundhole at a certain pitch. Because the box of the guitar is not as rigid as a glass bottle things are a little more complicated, though.

In particular, there's a resonance where the whole guitar is vibrating like a xylophone bar. The nut and the body in a line across about where the bridge is are pretty much stationary, and the ends go 'up and down' while the middle goes 'down and up', if you take my meaning. Because the top on most guitars are domed a bit this body motion can also pump a little air through the soundhole. Normally it's not very much, and usually this 'first corpus' (C-1) resonant mode is much lower in pitch than the 'main air' mode, and well below any note you'd play. However, if the neck, which flexes a lot in this mode, is particularly stiff, and if the head is particularly light, the 'C1' mode can be high enough in pitch to agree with the A-0, and then the two 'couple'.

This basically pumps a lot more air through the soundhole, and spreads the resonant pitches out over a few notes, rather than happening at one particular pitch. The low end sound can become particularly dark' or 'full', and you're much less likely to have a 'wolf' note at the 'air' pitch, which is usually around low G.

Since the head flaps around a lot in the C-1 mode, mass out on the peghead affects its pitch a lot. On the other hand, the pitch match between the 'air' and 'corpus' mods has to be pretty exact for it to be noticeable, so small changes in the mass on the head can shift it in and out of the coupling range. In that sense, it's one of those things that doesn't matter until it matters, and then it can matter a lot. It's sort of like 007 tied to a chair, with the water rising: it doesn't matter how deep it is until it reaches his nose, and then it's important.

That's one reason you get so many arguments about this, and bridge pins, for that matter. Somebody made a particular change and it had a big effect. Somebody else tried the same thing and noticed nothing. Neither of them is wrong; they just started in different places.

[The Old Anglo]

Originally Posted by cspencer

My pins arrived today from Bob. Wow what a difference!!! Louder, clearer and no annoying overtones. Did someone say Gibson sustain with added weight? Well, I can see the strings vibrating along fret 7 and 12. Never saw that before. Did I mention sustain? Yup, sustain!!!! And harmonics!!!

I have used bone pins before and it killed my sound. Muted everything. But Bob's pins are different. Looks nicer too.

Very Cool!!!. I`d like to try a set from him now,which ones did you get??. I`d like to improve the bass end sound of my Taylor 314ce. I`m currently using Elixer Nano Phospher Bronze and the bass strings fretted are a little thuddy to my hearing. Thank You for all your input!!!!.

[Jim.S]

Also AA&E regarding the bridge pins and to add to what Alan said if you start with a strongly built guitar, say from a factory then a bridge pin change may not make much difference but if you have a more efficient guitar like a lightly build hand made job it is possible that changing the bridge pins could shift the pitch of the tops main mode of vibration directly on to a corresponding note on the fret board and create a unpleasant wolf note.

Jim

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

That's one reason you get so many arguments about this, and bridge pins, for that matter. Somebody made a particular change and it had a big effect. Somebody else tried the same thing and noticed nothing. Neither of them is wrong; they just started in different places.

Well stated, Alan!

[cspencer]

Edit: Hi Old Anglo

I'm using Martin Lifespan PB 12's. I got from Bob a set of 2A bone pins with 4mm faux tortoise inlay. I'm getting the holes reamed as well. I'm using Bob's bone saddle and bought another for spare

Compared with plastic pins, the bone pins increased my sustain by a lot. I also get back the highs (treble) lacking in PB's. As I've said, I have another set of bone pins which muted my sound. But not this set. Btw bass is strong too.

Makes me wanna play more I am quite amused by the Les Paul sustain I'm getting on my Martin. Tusq can do that too, but sounds noisy, especially when you dig in to individual notes.

I'm very happy with my experiment. Even my wife could hear the harmonics. Press a note and it goes twang and when you let go it goes wah wah

[dovetail]

Originally Posted by cspencer

My pins arrived today from Bob.

I have used bone pins before and it killed my sound. Muted everything. But Bob's pins are different. Looks nicer too.

I find this very hard to believe ! But hey whatever! IMO even if some how Bob had bone that could be proven to have some special edge over the bone you used in the past, I doubt a human could hear any difference .

enjoy

[dovetail]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Also AA&E regarding the bridge pins and to add to what Alan said if you start with a strongly built guitar, say from a factory then a bridge pin change may not make much difference but if you have a more efficient guitar like a lightly build hand made job it is possible that changing the bridge pins could shift the pitch of the tops main mode of vibration directly on to a corresponding note on the fret board and create a unpleasant wolf note.

Jim

Heck a person can change the response of a guitar just by how they hold it so... IMO the the buck stops at the saddle. Pins well I like the look of ebony and bone.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Thank you, Alan. It's always a pleasure to read your contributions.

One of these days I'm going to compile his posts and put them in a book...

[Rodger Knox]

That would be a pretty thick book, and I'd like a copy!

[The Old Anglo]

Originally Posted by cspencer

Edit: Hi Old Anglo

I'm using Martin Lifespan PB 12's. I got from Bob a set of 2A bone pins with 4mm faux tortoise inlay. I'm getting the holes reamed as well. I'm using Bob's bone saddle and bought another for spare

Compared with plastic pins, the bone pins increased my sustain by a lot. I also get back the highs (treble) lacking in PB's. As I've said, I have another set of bone pins which muted my sound. But not this set. Btw bass is strong too.

Makes me wanna play more I am quite amused by the Les Paul sustain I'm getting on my Martin. Tusq can do that too, but sounds noisy, especially when you dig in to individual notes.

I'm very happy with my experiment. Even my wife could hear the harmonics. Press a note and it goes twang and when you let go it goes wah wah

Thank You Kindly!!!!. I`ll post on my findings for my Taylor.

[Alan Carruth]

dneal wrote:
"One of these days I'm going to compile his posts and put them in a book..."

If you do, I want a percentage!

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by dneal

One of these days I'm going to compile his posts and put them in a book...

Could I pre-order a copy of that please?


Jim