Bad setup?

[oligold]

Hello all, first time poster here, although I've been creeping around for a good while. So here's my question: Is it possible that I "threw out", or otherwise undid a professional set-up by briefly removing my saddle? A couple of weeks ago I took my guitar to a shop to get set up, and the repairman raised the action with a plastic shim in order to better suit my playing.

My guitar is an Eastman ac512 OM size with a short scale length, and a lot of the time it felt a little bit "slinky" when I dropped to open tunings. So the shim helped quit a bit, although from what I've read it's not an ideal long-term fix. Anyway I recently changed strings for the first time since the set-up, and being curious, I decided to just remove the saddle to see exactly what he had put in. What I saw was a half shim, going from the low "E" to the "D" string. After that I simply put the saddle back on, and proceeded to replace my strings. To my surprise, after I restrung the instrument it went right back to feeling the way it did before the setup (less tension, more buzzing, less percussive attack).

Could be this be down to something I did, like briefly removing the saddle, or the manner in which I restrung the instrument? Or did I just get a shoddy set-up done? By the way, he said the only thing he did was put the shim in under the saddle. No truss rod adjustment or anything. I'm back at school now so going back to the shop isn't really an option, and I'm freakin out a little cause I've got few gigs coming up in the next few weeks, and I was really liking my guitar's slightly increased tension. I know I should be more knowledgeable about this sort of stuff in general, but I'm hoping some of you more experienced heads could help me out.

Thanks a bunch!

Oligold

[charles Tauber]

Opinions vary on whether or not the use of a shim is "professional" or "permanent". Generally, I see no reason not to use them as they do not, in my experience, audibly change the sound of the instrument.

Opinions also vary regarding using a shim that doesn't run the full length of the saddle. My experience has been that unless there is an under saddle transducer, a partial length shim is fine.

As to your setup. I'm assuming you are using the same gauge and type of strings. If not, that could influence playability. I'm assuming you put the shim back as you found it. If not, that could influence playability. I'm assuming that you put the saddle back in the right way around, not flipped end for end. If not, that could influence playability. (Normally, the lower end of the saddle is for the high-pitched E string.)

Failing those things, it isn't anything you've likely done, specifically. Lowering of humidity can lower string height. If where you are now is significantly different in humidity than where you were when it was set up, that could influence playability.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Opinions also vary regarding using a shim that doesn't run the full length of the saddle. My experience has been that unless there is an under saddle transducer, a partial length shim is fine.

I'm assuming that the shim starts life off as a full length shim (glued on) , and becomes a partial shim after the underside of the saddle has been sanded to give the required action on both E strings?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

I'm assuming that the shim starts life off as a full length shim (glued on) , and becomes a partial shim after the underside of the saddle has been sanded to give the required action on both E strings?

Not what I'm talking about.

Sure, one can academically debate indefinately the merits of shims, made this way and that way, as well as no shims at all. However, where the rubber meets the road - saddle meets the bridge? - my experience, and that of my customers, is that, for guitars without under saddle transducers, the use of shims - when appropriately used - doesn't change the sound in any audible way. For under saddle transducers, all relevant bearing surfaces must mate well ruling out partial length shims.

Not everyone agrees that the use of shims - of any kind - are an acceptable solution. Many regard it as a make-shift solution. If a customer for whatever reason prefers that shims are not used, I'll make a new saddle of the appropriate height, and charge accordingly. I always give customers a choice, where applicable, to shim or make a new saddle.

Of course, there are limitations on the use of shims and one must work within those limitations. For example, one can't shim a saddle that doesn't have enough depth to the bridge slot and the slot can't be made deeper: shims should not cause a saddle to lean. And so on.

[Outhouse]

Originally Posted by oligold

(less tension, more buzzing, less percussive attack).





Thanks a bunch!

Oligold

I think you used lighter strings.


If you had buzz before then your tech did a horrible job.

More buzz and less tension means different strings.



You need to know what you had on it before and what you put on it now .

[John Arnold]

By the way, he said the only thing he did was put the shim in under the saddle. No truss rod adjustment or anything.

A truss rod adjustment may not have been needed if the relief was already correct. If that is the case, raising the saddle is the proper course.

What I saw was a half shim, going from the low "E" to the "D" string.

The problem with a partial length shim is that the saddle can rock on it unless it is very thin, or tapered in thickness.
IMHO, the best shim is rosewood or ebony that is glued to the bottom of the saddle with CA.
The neck or top may have relaxed when the string tension was completely removed, but it should return to the former setting after a while. That is, provided the new strings are the same gauge.

[HHP]

Did you put the saddle back in the same as it was before?