Just ordered a resonater 10 minutes ago!!!

[blue]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

I agree with Wade - every Reso player I know is a TINKERER! Hell many reso players got their start by buying cheap reso's and modding them with new cone, biscuits, etc. I've installed pickups in all but one of mine, and replaced cones, biscuits, etc. They are basic instruments and do not require as much finesse to work on as a high end acoustic. And with a little practice you can get pretty good with setup, and at very least, good at preventative maintenance. The best tip I have heard though is replacing one string at a time when restringing, that tends to keep the cone in place and in turn seems to keep the stray buzzes in check.

Especially the ones who buy chinese instruments... With a national it just isn't necessary once it's setup well. The top doesn't move with humidity. Once it's setup, what's to tinker with on a quality resonator?

Originally Posted by tdq

Fantastic, very happy for you. I have been using a brass slide for years, and couldn't imagine using anything else. Then I finally got myself a "real" National single cone and found the slide tone a little harsh, so I bought a perspex slide. I love it now and use it on my others guitar, too. I've yet to try a ceramic slide but will at the first opportunity. It pays to try as many types as you can.

Which single cone did you get that sounds harsh to you with a brass slide? Do you use fingerpicks and, if so, which ones? Just curious...

I have a National Vintage Steel Delphi, by the way, and find that steel slides are a bit harsh with it. Brass and glass work well though, as do fingerpicks or bare fingers.

[tdq]

I've got a 12 fret NRP Black Rust. Totally, totally in love with it. The brass slide I have is very heavy and although it works well I found it a bit clangy on the 6th string (or is it first? I can never remember...) - the high E, anyway. I suspect it's more my technique than anything else! The glass one just softened things a bit. I'm using a "silica" brand one, really liking it.
Re: finger pics - I use a golden gate thumbpick and bare fingers.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by blue

Especially the ones who buy chinese instruments... With a national it just isn't necessary once it's setup well. The top doesn't move with humidity. Once it's setup, what's to tinker with on a quality resonator?

As I mentioned in my post earlier in this thread, Blue, National cones can and do move slightly with use and restringing. It's not a radical change, but it happens.

With my National RM-1 mandolin, which gets used a lot, I have to tweak the cone back into its proper position at least once and usually twice a year.

It might well be that this problem is more recurrent on a resonator mandolin because of the incredible string tension that mandolins generate. The shorter scale also makes any shift in intonation more obvious, too - things don't have to move too far to be out of tune on a mandolin. But vibration from playing and (particularly) travel can and will really shift things around on any resonator instrument.

Beyond that, there is a strong contingent of resonator instrument owners who just like taking them apart and dinking around with them.

Why? Because they CAN....

But the need to adjust resonator guitars and mandolins is not some imaginary issue. Anything with multiple parts held in place with screws is going to need its hardware firmed up and optimized from time to time.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Claytone]

In keeping with the original title topic...I just got my resonater 10 minutes ago!!!
Fresh off the FedEx truck... After removing the packing material, the two cardboard boxes, and opening the case, the Wechter Sheerhorn Resonater looks awesome!!! After tuning I finger picked a few tunes and can say that the guitar is awesome sounding to my ears!!! No fret buzzes,(pleked), and no mysterious rattleings...
Thanks guys for all your comments!!! Now...back to the slide...I'm afraid it will sorta sound like a cat making "whoopie" to a monkey but with practice...

[blue]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

As I mentioned in my post earlier in this thread, Blue, National cones can and do move slightly with use and restringing. It's not a radical change, but it happens.

Wade Hampton Miller

It may be a mandolin thing. Cones on guitars don't shift if you restring properly. And it's generally accepted that they "play in". Meaning not only do cones get better with use, they vibrate into position, so if you do have to take one out, it will continue to improve in tone as it settles back in over a week to months depending on use.

I have 4 National guitars. I play one of the standard ones (I rotate through them) everyday, and the Baritone has been played everyday except for vacations and serious illness since I got it over 2 years ago. With each of them, when I got them I adjusted the nut, and saddle to my preference. And I do know my preference, and I do know how to cut a saddle for a National resonator. After that, I don't touch them. I haven't done anything, not even adjust the truss on my Polychrome 6 years. No buzzes, no issues.

[blue]

Originally Posted by Claytone

In keeping with the original title topic...I just got my resonater 10 minutes ago!!!
Fresh off the FedEx truck... After removing the packing material, the two cardboard boxes, and opening the case, the Wechter Sheerhorn Resonater looks awesome!!! After tuning I finger picked a few tunes and can say that the guitar is awesome sounding to my ears!!! No fret buzzes,(pleked), and no mysterious rattleings...
Thanks guys for all your comments!!! Now...back to the slide...I'm afraid it will sorta sound like a cat making "whoopie" to a monkey but with practice...

Do what the original players did. Single note lines. On the high string only.

Seriously. It's not a race. Work on the high string for accuracy and feeling, and most of all HAVE FUN!

Remember you play the guitar. You don't work it...

[Claytone]

Originally Posted by blue

Do what the original players did. Single note lines. On the high string only.

Seriously. It's not a race. Work on the high string for accuracy and feeling, and most of all HAVE FUN!

Remember you play the guitar. You don't work it...

Great suggestion Blue...play it don't work it Any suggestions for alt tuning...open G? Maybe one of those odd C chord tunings that I haven't tried...seems like Dolly Parton always tuned to open A...but I have never seen her slide...

[BoneDigger]

Congrats on a great new instrument!

Todd

[Claytone]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Congrats on a great new instrument!

Todd

Thanks Bonedigger...seems we all need a challenge and I have found mine!!!

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

As I mentioned in my post earlier in this thread, Blue, National cones can and do move slightly with use and restringing. It's not a radical change, but it happens.

With my National RM-1 mandolin, which gets used a lot, I have to tweak the cone back into its proper position at least once and usually twice a year.

It might well be that this problem is more recurrent on a resonator mandolin because of the incredible string tension that mandolins generate. The shorter scale also makes any shift in intonation more obvious, too - things don't have to move too far to be out of tune on a mandolin. But vibration from playing and (particularly) travel can and will really shift things around on any resonator instrument.

Beyond that, there is a strong contingent of resonator instrument owners who just like taking them apart and dinking around with them.

Why? Because they CAN....

But the need to adjust resonator guitars and mandolins is not some imaginary issue. Anything with multiple parts held in place with screws is going to need its hardware firmed up and optimized from time to time.


Wade Hampton Miller

Good points here. I have found that the cone on my National does stay in place pretty well when I restring. I only remove one string at a time when restringing, so I do not think there is too much movement. I always check the intonation when I am done and it is usually about the same as before the change. I also take my resonator apart once every year or so to clean out the inside. Invariably I get crud in there and I can hear it bouncing around in the body. I also dust it off a bit inside the body. None of this needs to be done, but I do it anyway. Taking it apart also makes it easier to buff the body out and add a coat of wax. I was advised to do this on my Vintage Steel Delphi if I did not want it to turn black and rusty. It has worked well so far.

[blue]

Originally Posted by Claytone

Great suggestion Blue...play it don't work it Any suggestions for alt tuning...open G? Maybe one of those odd C chord tunings that I haven't tried...seems like Dolly Parton always tuned to open A...but I have never seen her slide...

Open G is the original, certainly for hawaiian, and that's where the Dobro players got their inspiration. Bob Brozman has suggested that Open G ended up developing naturally in Hawaii (although they probably learned from the Mexian Vaqueros who also taught them to be cowboys), Mexico, Africa, the american south etc. because it's the major chord you can turn to with the least effort from Standard Guitar tuning. It's hard to argue with that.

The best thing about relying on Open G, which I do, is that it makes you stronger in your spanish style slide, and fingerpick blues knowledge too! And when I say G, I mean old school G like you would tune a guitar for blues fingerpicking. Not one of the lap variations.

Now the Hawaiian players take having many tunings as a point of pride. And they should. And certainly for bluegrass/country it's really limiting in the chordal playing, hawaiian also.

It's up to you. If you play a lot of country C6, or G6 would be popular.

[jt1]

I'll second Blue's sentiments in this thread and quote Bob Brozman on National maintenance: "Never take the strign tension off the resonator or take apart the coverplate/resonator assembly unless there is a very good reason!" (p. 243 of Bob's book, "National Resonator Instruments.")

In my experieence, once set up properly, Nationals require less maintenance than conventional guitars. I've got 2, a 1930 Style 1 tricone and 1991 Islander deluxe. The cones in these things really don't move unless all of the strings are removed. Indeed, physics would seem to dictate that the cones can't move unless freed from string tension.

Wade, other than you, I've never heard a National owner assert that "National cones can and do move slightly with use and restringing." Not doubting your experience, of course, but I do believe that you are an outlier. Just how hard are you playing your guitars, man? As you know, Brozman really beats on his guitars and sticks by the "these things don't need adjustment" mantra. I agree with him.

[Wade Hampton]

John, where I notice the cones shifting is on my National mandolins, both on my modern RM-1 and on the vintage woodbody mandolin that dates from just before WWII. I don't play my National M2 guitar as frequently as I do the mandolins - I've converted to using the Nationals from Gibson-style archtop mandolins almost exclusively not just because they sound great, but because of the vocal-like musical phrasing possible on them.

So the mandolins are the Nationals that get used most at my house, the modern one particularly. The vintage one sounds magnificent, but it's simply not as robust as the modern one, and the intonation isn't as accurate, either. (No surprise there...)

But for what it's worth, Don Young at National Reso-Phonic was not nearly as surprised as you and Blue seem to be when I mentioned the cones shifting to him. His basic attitude was that it happens, and they just need to get scooted back into position.


whm

[Mycroft]

I like Open G a lot, but also play a lot of Open D in both Lap Steel and Bottleneck slide, because you can play, say a G, at the 5th fret, with 9 different combinations of strings including inversions. And they all sound different. Standard Open G isn't quite as flexible, which is why the Bluegrass and Country boys used GBDGBD instead of DGDGBD.

But I like da Blooze...

TW

Oh, and I'd mention Locktite, but someone might think I was serious...