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  #31  
Old 06-30-2015, 03:21 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by drive-south View Post
You can also find Gibson WM45 used. These working man J45's were nearly identical to J45 except for the satin finish. Made in USA in Boseman Montana and sell well below the 1k price point.
I'll second that the WM-45's represent an excellent value. I owned one for two or three years and liked it a lot.

While the main difference between the WM-45 and the J-45 is cosmetic, with no sunburst finish on the WM-45, there is one other significant difference between the two: J-45's have Indian rosewood fingerboards and bridges, while WM-45's have those appointments in morado. Morado, also known as pau ferro, is not a true rosewood but it's a dense tropical hardwood, and functions just fine as a fingerboard and bridge wood.

Here's a picture of a WM-45 they once had for sale at Elderly:


To me the most incongruous thing about this fairly plain jane guitar was the Gibson company's choice to use gold-plated Grover Rotomatic tuners as factory stock. When I had my WM-45 I pulled those off and replaced them with some nickel-plated Gotohs, which looked more appropriate given the minimalist lines of the instrument, and stayed in tune better besides!


whm
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  #32  
Old 06-30-2015, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
If you want a true high gloss, having him shoot some clear coats over the top is probably the only option. Satin finishes almost never have enough finish material to buff down to a high gloss that gives you a mirror smooth surface.


whm
Yes, Wade, I believe you had mentioned this earlier. I believe this would have to be the solution here: clear coat and not just buffing the satin. I have a STRONG suspicion that they put this cheapo satin finish on there to save beaucoup $$$.

BTW, I'm a little uninformed about this. What's the latest and greatest on this? What do they shoot these days? Nitro? Poly? Or something even newer and higher tech?

There might also be some limitations here in Cali with our very stringent environmental regulations (which I support).

Thanks, Wade.
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  #33  
Old 06-30-2015, 03:44 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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There's no way that they'd use nitrocellulose lacquer on this line of guitars. Shooting nitro is quite labor intensive, and takes considerably more time than using some sort of polyester finish. What's more, satin nitrocellulose finishes are not durable at all - I've had a couple of dulcimers with that on them, and satin nitro is very soft and easily scratched and rubbed through. So it's not going to be nitrocellulose lacquer, I'd lay money on that.

I'm no expert on guitar finishes of any sort, but particularly not on the newest finish processes, which are changing all the time. But my guess is that this is some sort of polyester or similar synthetic.

I just tried calling the Epiphone folks at Gibson's corporate headquarters in Nashville in order to ask what finish those guitars are receiving, but couldn't get through to talk to a real person. It's late in the business day, so I'll try again tomorrow.


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  #34  
Old 06-30-2015, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
There's no way that they'd use nitrocellulose lacquer on this line of guitars. Shooting nitro is quite labor intensive, and takes considerably more time than using some sort of polyester finish. What's more, satin nitrocellulose finishes are not durable at all - I've had a couple of dulcimers with that on them, and satin nitro is very soft and easily scratched and rubbed through. So it's not going to be nitrocellulose lacquer, I'd lay money on that.

I'm no expert on guitar finishes of any sort, but particularly not on the newest finish processes, which are changing all the time. But my guess is that this is some sort of polyester or similar synthetic.

I just tried calling the Epiphone folks at Gibson's corporate headquarters in Nashville in order to ask what finish those guitars are receiving, but couldn't get through to talk to a real person. It's late in the business day, so I'll try again tomorrow.


whm
Eeewww. eeewww. excellent, Wade (to quote Wayne and Garth). Would you please post anything you’ve gleaned from Epiphone once you get them on the horn?

Would you also please ask them very specifically if they have any plans on the horizon to bring to market a glossy version of the same tobacco burst on the current (new) AJ-45ME model. My guess is that their response will be the following:

1) No, it will only be available in the current color. In the sales game, you always sell what you have. Even if they do have plans to offer a glossy version, they won’t tell you this because they want to sell what they have in the warehouse right now. Informing you that a new finish is coming (in, say, six months or a year) will costs them sales on current inventory. If they ARE introducing a glossy version, the correct venue for this would be Winter NAMM 2016 in Anaheim. You make a big splash, get lots of free press, and throw out all those press releases.

2) No, because they don’t want to encroach on the sales of the legendary J-45. Yes, they are far apart in price, but I’m betting the Montana folks got in the face of the Epi folks and put their foot down about this, and I imagine Henry J supported them on this. I have no inside knowledge of this activity, but this is the way it usually goes. From my (admittedly) outside view, the Bozeman operation is one of the most stable and profitable divisions in all of Gibson. You don’t mess with success. Plus, with the departure of Ren Ferguson (and, to my knowledge, no direct replacement), I suspect they are saving several hundred thousand $$$$ a year in salary, which makes the division even more profitable.

That’s my three cents. Please do report to us what the folks at Epiphone have to say.
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  #35  
Old 06-30-2015, 04:36 PM
GuitarLight GuitarLight is offline
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Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
If you want a true high gloss, having him shoot some clear coats over the top is probably the only option. Satin finishes almost never have enough finish material to buff down to a high gloss that gives you a mirror smooth surface.

w
whm
I would agree with Wade, that satin finishes are indeed very thin. While some people may have limited success at buffing them to a semi- shine, there is always the chance that the buffing process will go through to the raw wood, leaving it unsightly and exposed. And even in successful buffing, it is not likely that it will ever attain a full gloss shine. Shooting clear coats over it is probably the best. Or perhaps better still, just find a guitar that has actually been finished with gloss from the factory, instead of the Satin/Matte finish.

Last edited by GuitarLight; 06-30-2015 at 04:50 PM.
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  #36  
Old 06-30-2015, 04:50 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Scott, I made a note of your questions & will ask them if I manage to get anyone on the phone at Epiphone tomorrow. I've talked to Gibson product specialists before, notably Don Ruffato at Gibson Montana, who's a great guy and very helpful.

Epiphone, though, has moved their offices since the last time I spoke to anyone there, and the product specialist I spoke to back then no longer works for the company. But since I wrote my last post I found a current number and have a couple of names of people there to speak to, so I'll try again during business hours tomorrow.

I mean, we can speculate about this stuff all day long, but I prefer to cut the crap and just talk to someone who actually KNOWS....


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  #37  
Old 06-30-2015, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Scott, I made a note of your questions & will ask them if I manage to get anyone on the phone at Epiphone tomorrow. I've talked to Gibson product specialists before, notably Don Ruffato at Gibson Montana, who's a great guy and very helpful.

Epiphone, though, has moved their offices since the last time I spoke to anyone there, and the product specialist I spoke to back then no longer works for the company. But since I wrote my last post I found a current number and have a couple of names of people there to speak to, so I'll try again during business hours tomorrow.

I mean, we can speculate about this stuff all day long, but I prefer to cut the crap and just talk to someone who actually KNOWS....


whm
Wade, thanks, appreciate it.

You mentioned Epiphone relocated recently. Did they stay in Nashville, or move completely out of the area?

Who knows, I hope I'm wrong: you might very well get somebody on the phone who will spill the beans about whether there are more colors or finishes (glossy, glossy, oh please please) coming on the AJ-45ME. It wouldn't the first time someone laid it out straight to a customer. We'll keep our fingers crossed here at AGF.

I'm working tomorrow, so I'll catch as catch can. Feel free to PM me also after your call if you like to give me the real inside skinny LOL.

Be Well,
Scott
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  #38  
Old 07-01-2015, 12:33 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by charmedlife417 View Post
Wade, thanks, appreciate it.

You mentioned Epiphone relocated recently. Did they stay in Nashville, or move completely out of the area?
They just moved into another space right next to the Gibson Custom Shop, according to what Don Ruffato told me. Still in Nashville, still at Gibson HQ, just in nicer quarters.

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Originally Posted by charmedlife417 View Post
Who knows, I hope I'm wrong: you might very well get somebody on the phone who will spill the beans about whether there are more colors or finishes (glossy, glossy, oh please please) coming on the AJ-45ME. It wouldn't the first time someone laid it out straight to a customer. We'll keep our fingers crossed here at AGF.

I'm working tomorrow, so I'll catch as catch can. Feel free to PM me also after your call if you like to give me the real inside skinny LOL.
Whatever I learn, I'll post it here in this thread.


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  #39  
Old 07-01-2015, 07:44 AM
ronbo ronbo is offline
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Stopped in at my local GC lastnight to get some strings and saw one of these on the wall. Pulled it down and played it against one of the Epi Masterbuilt EF series and was duly impressed, much louder and easier playing than the Masterbuilt! The setup on the AJ45 was perfect for me, easy playability and great tone. Deep lows, sparkling highs, it really sounded and played great and was close the J45 they had in the pricey room, with a little more bottom end. Looks like Epiphone is getting their game on in this model!
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  #40  
Old 07-01-2015, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ronbo View Post
Stopped in at my local GC lastnight to get some strings and saw one of these on the wall. Pulled it down and played it against one of the Epi Masterbuilt EF series and was duly impressed, much louder and easier playing than the Masterbuilt! The setup on the AJ45 was perfect for me, easy playability and great tone. Deep lows, sparkling highs, it really sounded and played great and was close the J45 they had in the pricey room, with a little more bottom end. Looks like Epiphone is getting their game on in this model!
Very cool, Ron, thanks for the report. I only had about 20 minutes to play it, so I'm hoping my first impressions were wrong. Thanks for chiming in.

Did you have a chance to plug it in and listen to the quality of the pickup?

And may I ask, which GC did you play it at? They're dribbling in here in L.A., and not all stores have them yet.

Thanks Again,
Scott
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  #41  
Old 07-01-2015, 09:57 AM
GuitarLight GuitarLight is offline
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On this GLOSS finish issue Charmedlife417 and I fully agree. Another definate vote for the AJ45ME glossy finish here. Customers seem to be extremely disturbed that this AJ45ME model is being sold in ONLY the matte/satin finish. It is the deal breaker for me, and many other customers on this particular model. I've been following this model daily, almost hourly, from every online retailer in the country, since January of 2015, hoping a glossy model will become an availability, if not, at least I will know, and I can then look to a different manufacturer.
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2015, 03:23 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Okay, I just spoke with Scott Riley at Epiphone. He confirmed what I suspected, which is that there are currently no plans to offer the AJ-45 in a high gloss finish. I also asked what the finish is, and he told me it was a satin polyurethane.

We did talk about the Epiphone Masterbilt line, and he told me the reason that the line has been pared down to its current three models is that even though Epiphone Masterbilt fans recognize what an excellent value they are, they don't sell well compared to Epiphone's less expensive models.

"People who have them love them, and we get a lot of repeat buyers, but not high numbers," he said.

So, short version: no high gloss model is in the offing. Satin finishes are the only choice for the foreseeable future.

That's disappointing for some of you, I know, but keep in mind that the added labor that goes into shining up high gloss finishes does add substantially to the price, and the company doesn't want to have to price those guitars any higher than they already are.

Hope that makes sense.


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  #43  
Old 07-01-2015, 03:42 PM
GuitarLight GuitarLight is offline
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Thanks Wade, Really appreciate your effort here. No gloss...well maybe I can handle that if the guitar sounds good enough, and if I ever get my hands on one to try it out! This was good information, thanks.
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  #44  
Old 07-01-2015, 11:25 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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You're welcome. I was curious, as well, and it just saves so much time to simply call them and ask.


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  #45  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
I'll second that the WM-45's represent an excellent value. I owned one for two or three years and liked it a lot.

While the main difference between the WM-45 and the J-45 is cosmetic, with no sunburst finish on the WM-45, there is one other significant difference between the two: J-45's have Indian rosewood fingerboards and bridges, while WM-45's have those appointments in morado. Morado, also known as pau ferro, is not a true rosewood but it's a dense tropical hardwood, and functions just fine as a fingerboard and bridge wood.

Here's a picture of a WM-45 they once had for sale at Elderly:


To me the most incongruous thing about this fairly plain jane guitar was the Gibson company's choice to use gold-plated Grover Rotomatic tuners as factory stock. When I had my WM-45 I pulled those off and replaced them with some nickel-plated Gotohs, which looked more appropriate given the minimalist lines of the instrument, and stayed in tune better besides!


whm
Thanks for taking the time to post this, Wade. Unfortunately, I'm in search of burst models. I've got about ten spruce faces staring at me right now.
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