Norlin Gibsons and sterotypes...

[SalFromChatham]

I just came from Guitar Center in Springfield NJ, where I came across the following Norlin-era Gibson for $1200. I have heard how they are the worst and are to be avoided. After today I say that you must try them all before making a judgement. This specific model needed a neck reset- it a toothpick left for a saddle, and the action was a little high. But... Man... to quote Eddie Vegas, "this thing here is a **** tone rocket!"

I guess it goes to show you that specific specimens vary, and sterotypes can be wrong.

[brian a.]

I would agree. Many and possibly most Gibsons from that era were built like tanks. BUT, some (maybe a few) are really stellar. I am happy you found one of the stellar ones!!!! Congratulations!!!!

[Irish Dave]

I have said the same thing frequently here on the forum, but stereotypes, like prejudices, often die hard.

[Doubleneck]

There is a 1969 Norlin acoustic at my local shop its very nice and still set up pretty well. Have a Norlin 1975 Les Paul Custom. Great guitar. Good thing myths do is make some good guitars cheap.

[zombywoof]

A 1969 Gibson while being overbuilt compared to one made as late as 1967 is still a far cry from the tanks built from 1971 on. The electrics were a whole other ballgame. Gibson's R&D guys were working overtime and came up with some very interesting instruments.

I do though agree that blanket statements can be dangerous. And opinions do change. A while back I got a hold of one of those 1960s Fender acoustics with the Strat headstock and the broomstick running through it. While it was a heavy as I recalled it also did not sound near as bad as my memory had it. How many folks here recall how they could not wait to dump their Harmony Sovereign for a "good" guitar and then thirty-five years later get a hold of one of those Harmony's and think this is a flippin' really good sounding box.

The thing about Norlin Gibsons is according to the common wisdom they generally sucked but a few gems managed to sneak out of Kalamazoo. But it seems that everybody who buys one manages to find one of those elusive gems. I am sorry but the vast majority of those I have gotten my hands on (and I am old enough to have played them when they were brand spanking new) sounded like they were stuffed with old t-shirts.

[brian a.]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

The thing about Norlin Gibsons is according to the common wisdom they generally sucked but a few gems managed to sneak out of Kalamazoo. But it seems that everybody who buys one manages to find one of those elusive gems. I am sorry but the vast majority of those I have gotten my hands on (and I am old enough to have played them when they were brand spanking new) sounded like they were stuffed with old t-shirts.

I'm old enough to agree. Maybe only the "good" ones have survived all these years, while the "bad" ones got beat up, broken, smashed or burned on stage or for videos.!?!?!?!

[HHP]

Be funny if after the $500 neck set and other work, it was found to be a perfect example of Norlin-era Gibson sound.

[sfden1]

Often when someone posts a thread asking for feedback on a Norlin era guitar that they're considering buying, and it's clear they can't play it first, they will usually receive the advice to go elsewhere. I've given that advice myself,

I think we all (or most of us anyway) realize that there can be good Gibson's from that era, but if you can't try it before buying, your just rolling the dice.

Personally, I've yet to find a 70's Gibson I've really liked, but would never say that there aren't good ones to be found.

[Bob Womack]

True. True.

This little number

('74 small-script Kalamazoo Standard) is a fine sounding guitar. Anyone who chooses to follow the "Norlins are crap" dictum without using his own ears does so at his own peril.

Bob

[SalFromChatham]

I didnt buy it... I just enjoyed it in the shop for half an hour.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

...The thing about Norlin Gibsons is according to the common wisdom they generally sucked but a few gems managed to sneak out of Kalamazoo. But it seems that everybody who buys one manages to find one of those elusive gems. I am sorry but the vast majority of those I have gotten my hands on (and I am old enough to have played them when they were brand spanking new) sounded like they were stuffed with old t-shirts.

Originally Posted by brian a.

I'm old enough to agree. Maybe only the "good" ones have survived all these years, while the "bad" ones got beat up, broken, smashed or burned on stage or for videos...

I'm also old enough to have played them when they were new, and I agree that the vast majority of them stunk then and they stink now. I also had the good fortune to own one of those diamonds-in-the-rough back in the day - an "IMPERFECT-BGN" B45-12 "Lightfoot" that, according to standard Gibson practice of the day, should have been sold to an employee for next to nothing but instead found its way to the Brooklyn Sam Ash store in early '75; picked it up for $180 brand-new (about half the going price of a first-quality one), paid Matt Umanov $30 to reglue the bridge, and had a killer 12-string (similar mids/highs but more low-end than Gord's) for the next eight years (traded it on a first-run '52 Tele reissue in '83 when I went electric for a few years). I'm thinking that the ones that didn't fare so well tonally at the time found their way into their owners' basements/attics (unless you worked them over with a jackhammer they were virtually impossible to destroy) for the next 40 years - most of the ones that have started re-emerging lately seem to show few signs of use then or now - so if you're into the idea of owning a "near-mint" vintage piece and you're fortunate enough to get one that sounds decent (don't forget that the wood does in fact have four decades of aging to its credit), there are indeed some bargains to be had as the OP suggests. Nevertheless, caveat emptor...

[Fred]

I agree that not ALL Norlin acoustics were turkeys. My sister had a late 60s, plain-Jane J-45...total canon. Very sweet guitar. Could hold its own with anything. She couldn't afford a Martin D-18 and the Gibson was the fall-back. It certainly was the match of any D-18 of the same period.

[otis66]

Originally Posted by themissal

I didnt buy it... I just enjoyed it in the shop for half an hour.

The Gibson AJ sounded great too. Too bad it had a huge crack in the top. You may not be able to reset the neck on a Norlin Gibson from this time period.

[zabdart]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Have a Norlin 1975 Les Paul Custom. Great guitar. Good thing myths do is make some good guitars cheap.

Yep, it's true. I have a Les Paul Deluxe from the same period and despite being fairly beat-up when I got it, it's still a stellar guitar. However, it was a lot harder to screw up a solid-body design than an acoustic. It wasn't just the heavy, double-X bracing that made so many Norlin-era flattops dull-sounding but that huge, diamond-shaped bridge pad between the X's that really killed the sound. However, I will concede that there are a few Norlin-era Gibsons that are pretty good. As the OP suggested, however, most of these guitars need a neck reset by now (the product of setting the neck at a shallower angle). One of the great things about pre-Norlin Gibsons is that the neck sets were so great, they held up for decades. I have a '67 J-50 and it hasn't needed a neck reset yet. Norlin-era necks needed to be reset after about 20 years.
So, the prejudice against Norlin-era Gibsons is well founded. There were just any number of areas where problems could (and usually did) pop up. Compared to the pre-Norlin period, the flattops especially just weren't as good.

[drive-south]

That era was strange but some great guitars still slipped out of Kalamazoo. Some of the finest carvetops that Gibson ever built were from that era such as the Citation, Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Byrdland, and L5S. Gibson had a very active custom shop during that era and most of the carvetops were built there. Gibson management didn't interfere much with the custom shop. None of the custom shop guitars had the dreaded volute.