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  #16  
Old 08-13-2017, 06:39 AM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Absolutely. Unfortunately for the Slate system, I was in the room for one of those shootouts.
So one big criteria would seem to be, how good the mic sounds without any processing. One could assume that the better the mic itself is to start with, the better the results would be with the processing.

Also in a more general sense the applying of this type of digital technology to microphones, is in the relatively early stages. So if like digital audio itself (which at first was pretty bad) it continues to evolve and improve, it could get pretty interesting.
Personally I would much prefer to have the vintage mics themselves or really good modern reproductions. And for absolute certain I will not be letting go of either my Brauner or Schoeps ever.....

But from a practical standpoint Myself and many people do not have $20k to $30k, to throw at mic purchases . So as I noted in the OP "if" this system proves to come close enough, then it could be pretty useful and a pretty good bargain.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:20 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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I think the Slate, and maybe this new thing, are fine to tide you over in the short term. Same as amp sims. You can get an idea of what the real thing might sound like, and when your playing and singing and songwriting have reached a point where the gear is holding you back, you'll have a ballpark idea of which mics might be suitable.
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:12 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.

New frontier..........Marketing...

Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS. Bob, you're a saint.
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:36 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.

New frontier..........Marketing...

Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS. Bob, you're a saint.
Thankee kindly. sir!

Bob
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:26 PM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.

New frontier..........Marketing...

Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS. Bob, you're a saint.
So if you consider yourself as having foundation in physics or electronics then guess what. you fell for the "marketing" anyway , since "new frontier" was just a catchphrase I threw in for the title to help "market" this thread, and you responded, thanks


Obviously the more knowledge one has about electronics and the physics of sound the more potential for informed discussion is likely to be. Which has nothing to do with being at the mercy of "marketers"

Truth is, regardless of your foundational background you are only at the "mercy of the marketers" if you choose to place yourself at their mercy. You can't beat the laws of commonsense.

Also I am unclear as to what you are actually asserting. Are you saying because of the laws of physics and electronics that modeling cannot approximate specific tonal characteristics ?
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-13-2017 at 03:54 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:35 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So one big criteria would seem to be, how good the mic sounds without any processing. One could assume that the better the mic itself is to start with, the better the results would be with the processing.
It took me a while to really wrap my head around this concept. I had a plethora of cheap mics that I convinced myself would work well for me with enough tweaking. I embraced that idea for some years before I realized it was never really going to produce the kind of quality I really wanted.

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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
But from a practical standpoint Myself and many people do not have $20k to $30k, to throw at mic purchases . So as I noted in the OP "if" this system proves to come close enough, then it could be pretty useful and a pretty good bargain.
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Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I think the Slate, and maybe this new thing, are fine to tide you over in the short term. Same as amp sims. You can get an idea of what the real thing might sound like, and when your playing and singing and songwriting have reached a point where the gear is holding you back, you'll have a ballpark idea of which mics might be suitable.
I agree that there's some level of usefulness to these things in that they can provide you with some idea of the direction in which you might want to head, however, there are cheaper ways to do the same thing. Antares has a mic modeler program that they sell for around $130. It will give you more choices the the Slate or Townsend system for about a tenth of the price. And if the goal is simply to get an idea of what might work well for you, it's probably good enough.

Once a person finds the direction that works for them, I'd encourage them to move onto a mic that does a better job. I can't speak for every less expensive brand, but I do have some experience with some. The Advanced Audio mics all sell for less than $1k and the ones we put up against the Slate were all significantly better. I've used some ADK mics in the past and I'd recommend those also if someone needs to keep the price on the low side. Lastly, if someone is looking for a U47 flavor on a budget, the Lauten Audio Atlantis has impressed the hell out of me. Now none of these approach the level of my Flea, but it's unreasonable to think a $1k mic is going to pull that off.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:19 PM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
It took me a while to really wrap my head around this concept. I had a plethora of cheap mics that I convinced myself would work well for me with enough tweaking. I embraced that idea for some years before I realized it was never really going to produce the kind of quality I really wanted.




I agree that there's some level of usefulness to these things in that they can provide you with some idea of the direction in which you might want to head, however, there are cheaper ways to do the same thing. Antares has a mic modeler program that they sell for around $130. It will give you more choices the the Slate or Townsend system for about a tenth of the price. And if the goal is simply to get an idea of what might work well for you, it's probably good enough.

Once a person finds the direction that works for them, I'd encourage them to move onto a mic that does a better job. I can't speak for every less expensive brand, but I do have some experience with some. The Advanced Audio mics all sell for less than $1k and the ones we put up against the Slate were all significantly better. I've used some ADK mics in the past and I'd recommend those also if someone needs to keep the price on the low side. Lastly, if someone is looking for a U47 flavor on a budget, the Lauten Audio Atlantis has impressed the hell out of me. Now none of these approach the level of my Flea, but it's unreasonable to think a $1k mic is going to pull that off.
Couple of thoughts:

First I would not tend to lump Townsend in with Slate, just as I would not lump all plugin software, together.
Also honestly when Slate offered his virtual console and a few of his rack plugins for free, I downloaded it. And gave it pretty good run for about 6 or 8 months. I quit using it because I felt that it did not have the presence and clarity many of the other plugins I use . So if his mic modeling algorithms are of a similar nature it does not surprise me that it is not all that great.

Also I personally do care and I don't think anyone think anyone has suggested that modeling can exactly replicate the sound. And it does not really matter and is not the point. The point is if it can emulate be close and " Sound Good" as well , that is all that matters. Arguably your Flea does not exactly replicate a specific U47 maybe it is close who cares , it does not matter, if it sounds good.



For example my Bricasti M7 has a preset I use all the time called "Sunset Chamber" it is programed to emulate the sound of the Sunset Studios physical chamber. Do not even remotely care if it exactly replicates the Sunset chamber , it sounds so good it does not matter. That is the point .

Without actually hearing the Townsend system all the speculation about what it is or isn't, or can or cannot do, is just that..... speculation.
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-13-2017 at 03:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2017, 06:02 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So if you consider yourself as having foundation in physics or electronics then guess what. you fell for the "marketing" anyway , since "new frontier" was just a catchphrase I threw in for the title to help "market" this thread, and you responded, thanks

>> Well, Kev, you're a known pot stirrer. Regardless of that, I consider you a friend. Should I not?

Obviously the more knowledge one has about electronics and the physics of sound the more potential for informed discussion is likely to be. Which has nothing to do with being at the mercy of "marketers"

>> Not so obvious in this forum. The levels vary greatly.

Truth is, regardless of your foundational background you are only at the "mercy of the marketers" if you choose to place yourself at their mercy. You can't beat the laws of commonsense.

>> The laws of common sense? They have little to do with the laws of physics and electronics.

Also I am unclear as to what you are actually asserting. Are you saying because of the laws of physics and electronics that modeling cannot approximate specific tonal characteristics ?
>> There you go stirring the pot again. You used to be such a nice guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFK...el=MontyPython

Your Pal,

Ty

Last edited by Ty Ford; 08-14-2017 at 06:50 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:05 AM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
>> There you go stirring the pot again. You used to be such a nice guy.



Your Pal,

Ty
I am the known pot stirrer ? Perhaps, but are we certain this isn't both a pot and kettle that is being stirred ?
Perhaps you don't understand the potentially stirring and dismissive nature of the post below

Quote:
If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.

New frontier..........Marketing...

Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.
If observing and pointing out vague statements with what appears to be a dismissive tone is stirring the pot or being argumentative then so be it . Friend or not, I do tend to call it as I see it



So back to the OP I found the video and particularly Joe Chiccarelli's comments interesting, did you not ?
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-14-2017 at 07:18 AM.
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:28 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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I am the known pot stirrer ? Perhaps, but are we certain this isn't both a pot and kettle that is being stirred ?

>>>>Huh?

Perhaps you don't understand the potentially stirring and dismissive nature of the post below

Quote:
If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.

New frontier..........Marketing...

Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.


>>>>Dismissive? Mic modelers have been around a long time. I called you on punching up your copy for effect. "New Frontier?", Yeah, I'll dismiss that.

Hugs,

Ty
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:01 AM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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[QUOTE=Ty Ford;5443963]

Quote:
>>>>Huh?
Yes "pot calling the kettle black" perhaps try a look in the mirror


Quote:

If you don't have a foundation in physics or electronics, your discussion points are limited. You're at the mercy of the marketers.
Wrong. limited foundation in physics or electronics does not equal gullible . Not to mention a full background in physics or electronics is not a required qualification to participate in this forum, this is AGF not a science forum. And flippant condescending comments do not actually contribute anything useful
Quote:
Modelers will make things sound different, but you can't beat the laws of physics or electronics.[/I]
A vague statement as to actual direct relevance or application to the OP, got anything a bit more direct and detailed = like actually useful in context.

Quote:
>>>>Dismissive? Mic modelers have been around a long time.
have they, compared to what ? Depends on perspective ... Digital audio has not been around all that long



Quote:
I called you on punching up your copy for effect. "New Frontier?", Yeah, I'll dismiss that.
OK you don't like my title, no problem. It's just a title, if It bothers you so, feel free suggest one more to your liking

I noticed you have not answered any of the questions I asked.
I'm not sure a Tit for Tat Gear Slutz - esque posting style (on both are parts) is adding to this thread
You wanna try starting over, and see where that leads or just continue slinging arrows ?
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-14-2017 at 09:39 AM.
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:10 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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You need a much thicker skin,, my friend.

Ty Ford
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:01 PM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
You need a much thicker skin,, my friend.

Ty Ford
Do I ? Perhaps, on the other hand , deflection of blame is often a means of avoiding a good hard look in the mirror ,, pardner. If you don't have a foundation in psychology your discussion points are limited and you are at the mercy of your own self marketing

Got anything to contribute related to the OP ? Or are you just going to keep stirring the pot ?
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-14-2017 at 08:02 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:41 AM
KevWind KevWind is online now
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Just stumbled on some more video's


This one is a fairly thorough review, done by one of the editors of the Production Expert/Pro Tools Expert blogs. Kinda long but does get into detail on some of features of the software part of the system. With some playing drums and acoustic guitar in virtual " Dual mic mode"
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:13 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Well, you are the OP. I called you on using marketing speak. I didn't "fall for the marketing", I called you on it. You copped to it.

"What appears to be a dismissive tone." Because I don't agree with you?

About 30 years ago, in the studio, to my surprise, I was able to EQ and compress an RE27ND to sound pretty much like a U 87i in one specific application, VO, with one specific voice and one specific piece of copy.

I think modelers, in general, are hype. Further, I think any mic that uses "47" as a way of intimating that the mic sounds anything like a Neumann U 47 (last manufactured in 1965, according to Coutant.) is also hype. Which U 47? A new one? One that's been carefully taken care of for many years? One that hasn't? Somewhere in between with aging caps and a slightly saggy diaphragm?

You like to make your mic sound different by putting some circuitry in from of it, fine, but let's not kid ourselves.

Best Regards,

Ty Ford
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