Dr. Herringbone Tone Traveler. (Review)

[Mike Buchman]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Not sure if the discount code still works, but it was AGF10. The code was originally posted almost a year ago. It’s worth trying. If it doesn’t work, reach out to Isaac through the TT website. The folks at TT are very responsive, and very helpful.

That code worked! I found it on an older thread in the sponsor section

[wcap]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Not sure if the discount code still works, but it was AGF10. The code was originally posted almost a year ago. It’s worth trying. If it doesn’t work, reach out to Isaac through the TT website. The folks at TT are very responsive, and very helpful.

I ordered mine about three weeks ago, and because I had not been hanging out here at AGF very much in recent years I was not aware of the AGF discount. No big deal though, since there was (and I think still is) a good discount running otherwise.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I bought a TT about a month ago specifically for my brand new maple Spohn OM-C. The short story is that the device did turn this guitar from a "green" one to a much more seasoned-sounding instrument. It took about 110 hours to get where it is now - noticeably greater volume overall, with greater sustain, a "liquidification" of trebles and deepening of the low end. Really, quite transformative. I have not used the device for about two weeks now, and have noticed no regression. Though, I play the guitar up to two hours a day.

My question has to do with the amount of time that a guitar can "safely" remain on the device continuously. And if a substantial (more than 5 consecutive days) is ill advised, whether it is appropriate to give the guitar a rest after an extended session. If I understand the OP's post, he had it on, and continuously, for two weeks. presumably with no ill effect mentioned.

I reached out to the TT people for an answer on the length of time the device should be used continuously, or in accumulation. While they were very prompt with two other queries I had, I received no response to that very important one.

To those of you who have used the TT, what kind of treatment time do you have on a single guitar, and how did you go about it.

I also asked whether there is a point of diminished returns with treatment, but,again, received no reply. Any help here would be appreciated as well.

David

Multiple places (here on AGF I think, maybe on YouTube, maybe on the website, I forget), I've read the Tone Traveler folks saying that there is not a limit to how much you can use the Tone Traveler on a guitar.

Of course, there is no way to know this for certain without years and years of experience with doing this. But my take on this is that the thinking is that this is basically just simulating playing the guitar, and no-one really says that playing a guitar a lot is going to wear it out (well, people do say this about classical guitars, that they do wear out in time) or cause it to fall apart. When using the Tone Traveler the vibrations in the guitar (especially in the top) feel like how I think it might feel with relatively heavy strumming or other higher volume playing.

Somewhere here (I think in one of these AGF conversations?), or maybe on their web site (??) they were saying that they think an hour of Tone Traveler time is equivalent to about 3 hours of actual play time. I don't know how one would actually determine that, but it does make sense, at least in an approximate way, given that the vibrations of a guitar are not as consistent and constant during an hour of playing as with the Tone Traveler.

Regarding diminishing returns: Logically, this must certainly be the case - surely a given instrument can only be taken so far. Though there is some thinking that regular use will help to maintain "openness" of the guitar if it is not being played regularly otherwise.

I think everyone (including the Tone Traveler folks) agree that there are unanswered questions about what is actually going on in guitars regarding "opening up".

Regardless, given the experiences of others, and given my preliminary experience after two weeks of use, it really does seem like this device does have positive effects (varying levels of effect, as one might expect) on most (if not pretty much all??) guitars it has been used on.

I have another guitar that I want to use this on, where I think there might be a lot of benefit.

I am having misgivings regarding using it on my cedar topped Goodall though, which has about the biggest fullest voice one could ask for. Maybe the Tone Traveler would make it even better, or maybe just different, and if I don't know what the changes might be I'd rather not fiddle with the sound and responsiveness of a guitar that I don't think needs improvement.

I'm also not certain whether I want to try using this on my cedar topped classical guitar. My understanding is that cedar topped guitars start out pretty "open", and that perhaps they don't necessarily hold up over years and years of playing the way, say, spruce would (I'm not an expert on this though, so do your own research on cedar tops before quoting me on this!).

I'd be interested in hearing about Tone Traveler experiences with cedar topped guitars.

[BlueBowman]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Not sure if the discount code still works, but it was AGF10. The code was originally posted almost a year ago. It’s worth trying. If it doesn’t work, reach out to Isaac through the TT website. The folks at TT are very responsive, and very helpful.

Thanks, Sinistral.

[BlueBowman]

Originally Posted by wcap

I am having misgivings regarding using it on my cedar topped Goodall though, which has about the biggest fullest voice one could ask for. Maybe the Tone Traveler would make it even better, or maybe just different, and if I don't know what the changes might be I'd rather not fiddle with the sound and responsiveness of a guitar that I don't think needs improvement.

I'm also not certain whether I want to try using this on my cedar topped classical guitar. My understanding is that cedar topped guitars start out pretty "open", and that perhaps they don't necessarily hold up over years and years of playing the way, say, spruce would (I'm not an expert on this though, so do your own research on cedar tops before quoting me on this!).

I'd be interested in hearing about Tone Traveler experiences with cedar topped guitars.

I’m curious about this, too. How does the TT perform on a guitar that you already love playing? Based on what I’ve read, seems like you will get “more” of what you love in that guitar. I’m very happy with the way all my guitars sound.

I’m also curious how it performs on cedar.

In theory, this device makes complete sense to me. I sometimes hear a small “opening up” after I’ve played a guitar for half an hour or so…almost like it has warmed up and rings better. I think I’ll give it a try.

[Siddhartha]

I'd be surprised if those people who agree that a guitar needs to be "played in" would doubt that something like a Tone Traveler would work.

You could probably get similar results by sitting the guitar in front of a speaker, and playing that open chord, but this vibrates right on the bridge, more-similarly to the way a guitar is played and broken in, but YMMV

[DrHerringbone]

Originally Posted by wcap

I've been running the Tone Traveler on my not heavily played roughly 14 year old all-mahogany Martin 00015 for two weeks now with standard tuning. I really sort of bought the Tone Traveler with this guitar in particular in mind. I really didn't notice any effect until about a week into this. I kind of expected that with a hardwood top it might take longer to see effects, and that seems to have been the case.

Despite the strings being really old and dead when I started the Tone Traveler treatment, the guitar is seeming quite changed now. This was always a guitar with a beautiful sound for fingerpicking if played in a resonant space (and was great for recording), but whose sound could sort of get lost in a sound absorbing room (e.g. with carpet, upholstered furniture, etc). I actually almost returned it after buying it, but the wonderful repair guy who used to have a shop there in the basement (at The Podium, where I had purchased the guitar) talked about how these all-mahogany Martins develop into loud guitars with a really sweet tone. I had not really seen (heard) this happen though prior to using the Tone Traveler.

After two weeks with the Tone Traveler, the matter of the sound getting lost in the room is not an issue anymore - even with dead strings on it, it has a stronger voice and seems more resonant now. Memories of sounds are tricky, of course, but it is seeming reminiscent of the wonderful 1930's (I think 1938?) all mahogany 00 size Martin I played in a shop once. It will be interesting to see what the guitar is like when I eventually put new strings on it.

I now have it tuned to DADGAD tuning (which I use for a LOT of my playing), and have it set up with with the Tone Traveler on it with the six primary DADGAD tones running.

I'm thinking of adding in some of the harmonics though too.
- the primary tones but an octave higher?
- the harmonics at the 7th fret?
- maybe 5th fret too??
- ninth fret harmonics too????

Is this overkill?

And is there any danger of overloading the speaker somehow by adding in too many notes?

Its going to take me a little bit of time thinking through what notes to switch on for all of this!

What notes for harmonics are included in the standard program for standard tuning?

If it was easy to share this, knowing those notes would streamline this for me, since for some strings they would be the same in DADGAD, and for the others I'd just have to drop the notes a whole step. I could certainly figure this out myself though.

Thanks.

EDIT: I just added in the octaves (12th fret harmonics) because it was simple and didn't require any particular thinking. One thing I see now is that a significant part of the quite loud sound of the standard tuning program is coming from the harmonics that are added in - this is much louder with these harmonics added!

Hey WCap,

Great questions! Thanks for bringing me back around to the forum. We've been so busy it's been just hard keeping all the plates in the air between two guys.

First off you are 100% correct in thinking that mahogany takes longer to open up, koa does too and we are learning more and more as we get tone travelers into the hands of folks with more exotic tone woods.

Adding harmonics in is a great idea! The note page allows for 16 simultaneous tones to play at once and there is zero risk of damaging your system. It is theoretically possible to overdrive the system but we did extensive testing to make sure that couldn't happen.

(All notes marked with a * are repeats)

All this being said you could get a set of 6 root notes D2 A2 D3 G3 A3 D4, 5th fret harmonic G2 D3* G3* C4 D4* G4, 7th Fret Harmonic A2* E3 A3* D4* E4 A4, and 12th fret octaves would be D3* A3* D4* G4* A4* D5

You see there starts to be a lot of overlaps just due to the nature of harmonic sequence, scales, and the musical nature of most instrument tunings.

All said that would mean that DADGAD with 2 overtones and an octave (with no repeats) would be: D2 G2 A2 D3 E3 G3 A3 C4 D4 E4 G4 A4 D5 (a lot of the octaves got in there too because of how dadgad is, but there is even for another 5 notes of harmonics if you chose to add a sequence of 9th fret harmonics)

One easy way to figure out the harmonics is to count the frets up to the harmonic note that you want and then just count the keys going up the alphabet on your tone traveler's note page.

Best,

Isaac


Hope this helps

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by BlueBowman

I’m curious about this, too. How does the TT perform on a guitar that you already love playing? Based on what I’ve read, seems like you will get “more” of what you love in that guitar. I’m very happy with the way all my guitars sound.

I’m also curious how it performs on cedar.

In theory, this device makes complete sense to me. I sometimes hear a small “opening up” after I’ve played a guitar for half an hour or so…almost like it has warmed up and rings better. I think I’ll give it a try.

All I can say BlueBowman, is the Tone Traveler has Rocked my Acoustic Guitar world. I have been astounded at the difference treatment makes.

To answer your question...I have two custom amazon rosewood guitars that I already loved the way they sounded (before treat ). But like everyone else, I am always looking for the little bit of something more. In fact, I had been auditioning many high end guitars looking for the little bit of extra. On the recommendation of a fellow AGFer (who is a great player with lots of great guitars) I purchased a TT. With just 8 hours of standard treatment...I immediately heard a difference. More bass, more note separation, and trebles sweeter. On all of my guitars it made a difference. Some more than others. But the improvement in tone was so much so, that I have stopped looking for another guitar.

You know, it really doesn't take a lot of difference to make a defining difference in what we need. I think that is the key. Getting that little bit of extra.

I then took it down to my friends house...where we did the same test. I put it on one of his guitars (that he has owned for 15 years) over night. For 8 hours. I made sure that we both played the guitar extensively right before we put it on the TT. I wish you could have seen the expression on my friends face when he played it 8 hours later. he said " Can this be? I am hearing big difference! " He was in shock. Then we tried it on a second guitar with the same Improved results.

I have since added lots more hours of treatment to my guitars with more improvements. But I believe the biggest difference will be heard in just 8 hours of standard treatment. After that the difference in improvement is much smaller...but still there.

Do the same test that I did....Play it right before you put it on the TT and then after 8 hours of treatment. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[BlueBowman]

Wow, AD. You are making feel really good about my purchase yesterday! It’s already in the mail, too.

Thank you for your response. And I completely agree about that “little extra” making all the difference in a guitar. That little bit can even be the defining sound of a guitar and why we love it!

If you don’t mind, would you consider any specific setting to be the best? I also plan on trying the TT out on a rosewood b/s guitar first. Any particular setting you think I should try first?

Thanks again!

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by BlueBowman

Wow, AD. You are making feel really good about my purchase yesterday! It’s already in the mail, too.

Thank you for your response. And I completely agree about that “little extra” making all the difference in a guitar. That little bit can even be the defining sound of a guitar and why we love it!

If you don’t mind, would you consider any specific setting to be the best? I also plan on trying the TT out on a rosewood b/s guitar first. Any particular setting you think I should try first?

Thanks again!

I would recommend using the standard settings on the Guitar page tuning your guitar to the standard E,A,D,G,B, E.

Then after 8 hours...I would decide what it is you would like to work on. More sweetness in the first and second string? Even more Bass. Or focus the middle strings? From there I would go to the Note Page. And as an example if you want more Sweetness in the high E...then I would plug in E4, E5, E6 & E7.
I have used as many as 12 individual notes on the note page at one time.

Looking forward to hearing your results!
By the way...are you a Trad Archer as well...BlueBowman? I have been in Traditional archer(before they called it trad) since 1965

[wcap]

Originally Posted by DrHerringbone

Hey WCap,

Great questions! Thanks for bringing me back around to the forum. We've been so busy it's been just hard keeping all the plates in the air between two guys.

First off you are 100% correct in thinking that mahogany takes longer to open up, koa does too and we are learning more and more as we get tone travelers into the hands of folks with more exotic tone woods.

Adding harmonics in is a great idea! The note page allows for 16 simultaneous tones to play at once and there is zero risk of damaging your system. It is theoretically possible to overdrive the system but we did extensive testing to make sure that couldn't happen.

(All notes marked with a * are repeats)

All this being said you could get a set of 6 root notes D2 A2 D3 G3 A3 D4, 5th fret harmonic G2 D3* G3* C4 D4* G4, 7th Fret Harmonic A2* E3 A3* D4* E4 A4, and 12th fret octaves would be D3* A3* D4* G4* A4* D5

You see there starts to be a lot of overlaps just due to the nature of harmonic sequence, scales, and the musical nature of most instrument tunings.

All said that would mean that DADGAD with 2 overtones and an octave (with no repeats) would be: D2 G2 A2 D3 E3 G3 A3 C4 D4 E4 G4 A4 D5 (a lot of the octaves got in there too because of how dadgad is, but there is even for another 5 notes of harmonics if you chose to add a sequence of 9th fret harmonics)

One easy way to figure out the harmonics is to count the frets up to the harmonic note that you want and then just count the keys going up the alphabet on your tone traveler's note page.

Best,

Isaac


Hope this helps

Thanks so much for your fast response to my e-mail (and responding here was better because now others can benefit from your answer). This is perfect, makes sense, and speeds up my ability to get this set up.

Another question though:

Do you folks have any thoughts on the matter of cedar tops? Based on a few things I've read over the years (and this is certainly a case of where a little knowledge without more expert knowledge is maybe a bad thing!...) it sounds like cedar tops do not necessarily benefit from years of playing, and that they actually can maybe sometimes get worse with years and years of playing. What is your current thinking and/or experience regarding cedar tops?

(I'm completely recognizing here that a lot of these things are not really known with certainty, and that a lot of these "opening up" matters come down to anecdotal evidence and some speculation.)

[BlueBowman]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

I would recommend using the standard settings on the Guitar page tuning your guitar to the standard E,A,D,G,B, E.

Then after 8 hours...I would decide what it is you would like to work on. More sweetness in the first and second string? Even more Bass. Or focus the middle strings? From there I would go to the Note Page. And as an example if you want more Sweetness in the high E...then I would plug in E4, E5, E6 & E7.
I have used as many as 12 individual notes on the note page at one time.

Looking forward to hearing your results!
By the way...are you a Trad Archer as well...BlueBowman? I have been in Traditional archer(before they called it trad) since 1965

I had to look up "archery" and "blue bowman." Hahaha, just great. Wonder if I should snag that awesome avatar for my AGF pic?

No archery here. "Blue" because, no matter what style of music I play, the blues always seem to come out of me (hearing so much blues music from my father throughout my child has taken deep root!). "Bowman" because it's my last name, and it just so happens that I'm English/Cherokee in heritage, where the bow is represented well in both cultures.

I really appreciate all your advice, AD. Seems like a very logical approach after the first 8 hour treatment. I will certainly be back to review my experience after a few weeks of TT use!

[Dan Winheld]

How well does this device work on mediocre guitars? I have an “ok” guitar bought in a hurry 15 months ago when I needed a sub $1k 7-string axe for my bedroom when I was sick last year.

Schecter “Orleans Stage Acoustic 7”. Solid Sitka or Engleman top, scalloped braces, flamed maple back/sides (appear to be solid).

With expert setup, yanking the soft pickup from under the bone saddle, bone nut & bridge pins, it’s kind of almost pretty good now, but pales in comparison to my other instruments- and they’re no “Stradivariuses” either- (well, one almost… )

Cutting to chase: is it worth $300 to maybe improve a $670 guitar? If it was a 6 string, of course not. Sell it and move on. But 7-strings under a grand that are at least ok, not $10+ k customs, are rarer than snake shoes. And I do like this guitar.

Thank you!

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by BlueBowman

I had to look up "archery" and "blue bowman." Hahaha, just great. Wonder if I should snag that awesome avatar for my AGF pic?

No archery here. "Blue" because, no matter what style of music I play, the blues always seem to come out of me (hearing so much blues music from my father throughout my child has taken deep root!). "Bowman" because it's my last name, and it just so happens that I'm English/Cherokee in heritage, where the bow is represented well in both cultures.

I really appreciate all your advice, AD. Seems like a very logical approach after the first 8 hour treatment. I will certainly be back to review my experience after a few weeks of TT use!

I am also of English/Scottish Cherokee & Mexican heritage( and probably a whole bunch of other stuff)

Many English names come from professions or descriptions of places.
As an example....Pete Townshend of the Who ( whom I personally consider a revolutionary acoustic guitarist with songs like Pinball Wizard and Behind Blue Eyes) The name comes for those who Lived at the Towns....End.

In your case:
"The Bowman surname lived under the Farquhar line in Scotland. The surname comes from the Middle English words boweman or bouman, which in turn derives from the Old English or Saxon words boga (bow) and mann (man)."
Also:
"English and Scottish: occupational name for an archer hunter or soldier armed with a bow from Middle English bow(e)man bouman (from Old English "

[wcap]

Originally Posted by DrHerringbone

Hey WCap,

Great questions! Thanks for bringing me back around to the forum. We've been so busy it's been just hard keeping all the plates in the air between two guys.

First off you are 100% correct in thinking that mahogany takes longer to open up, koa does too and we are learning more and more as we get tone travelers into the hands of folks with more exotic tone woods.

Adding harmonics in is a great idea! The note page allows for 16 simultaneous tones to play at once and there is zero risk of damaging your system. It is theoretically possible to overdrive the system but we did extensive testing to make sure that couldn't happen.

(All notes marked with a * are repeats)

All this being said you could get a set of 6 root notes D2 A2 D3 G3 A3 D4, 5th fret harmonic G2 D3* G3* C4 D4* G4, 7th Fret Harmonic A2* E3 A3* D4* E4 A4, and 12th fret octaves would be D3* A3* D4* G4* A4* D5

You see there starts to be a lot of overlaps just due to the nature of harmonic sequence, scales, and the musical nature of most instrument tunings.

All said that would mean that DADGAD with 2 overtones and an octave (with no repeats) would be: D2 G2 A2 D3 E3 G3 A3 C4 D4 E4 G4 A4 D5 (a lot of the octaves got in there too because of how dadgad is, but there is even for another 5 notes of harmonics if you chose to add a sequence of 9th fret harmonics)

One easy way to figure out the harmonics is to count the frets up to the harmonic note that you want and then just count the keys going up the alphabet on your tone traveler's note page.

Best,

Isaac


Hope this helps

OK, so I think I have this set up now for the primary tones along with the 5th, 7th, 9th, and 12th fret harmonics for each string. Well, with the 16 tone limit, I needed to omit the 9th fret harmonics for the two lowest pitch strings (does not seem like much of a loss).

(I need to double check still to make sure this is right, but I think I was doing this right.)

Oh my, it is quite a sound with all this going at once (at top volume)! Thank goodness for our small basement bathroom where I can have this set up and close the door, and limit the sound to just a low, weird, slight background hum in the rest of the house!

[IMG]Tone Traveler setup DADGAD with 5th 7th and 12th fret harmonics and four highest 9th fret harmonics IMG_20240123_214618493_HDR by wcap07[/IMG]