Glory and notoriety for Who ?

[harmonics101]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5614949.html


Hiba Suleman said the cause was dear to her father, who left Pakistan in 1983.

She said the trip had been a dream of her father's for years and that her brother was excited to join in and pursue the record. He planned to be the pilot in command except in an emergency.

[harmonics101]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Some YouTube family vloggers do

Grace, have you seen the Off Topic post about Beer Drinkers on the UMGF ?

H

[mjz]

Originally Posted by harmonics101

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5614949.html


Hiba Suleman said the cause was dear to her father, who left Pakistan in 1983.

She said the trip had been a dream of her father's for years and that her brother was excited to join in and pursue the record. He planned to be the pilot in command except in an emergency.

Thanks,

max

Originally Posted by harmonics101

Grace, have you seen the Off Topic post about Beer Drinkers on the UMGF ?

H

No, sorry, I don't read that forum.

[harmonics101]

Its about a guy holding a huge rubber cage ball, being impacted by a Ford 150 pickup truck on a pitchers mound of dirt, and being thrown backwards about 10 yards, his head barely missing a tree,

Anyway, I see the other side of the viewpoint of mine on dangerous excursions, my only disgust is that parents sometimes vicariously try to live their dreams through their children, at the expense of the children,

H

[bmc]

Originally Posted by harmonics101

Some points well taken GraceGuitar, although you don't go on vacations or ' have fun ' to gain notoriety or publicity,

Other than that, I can definitely agree with everything you have said,

H

And just another note, according to the articles, the kid got his license to fly over open water in June of this year, its like right afterwards, they went on this trip around the world ? That's like getting your driver's learner permit and then take out on a cross country ride in your car.

Not that smart

There is no such thing as a license to fly over open water. It does not exist. I'm sure it appeared in some article but the media frequently get it wrong. There are no special skills required to fly over a one, a river, a lake, a sea, etc. Make sure the airplane is serviceable, has plenty of gas to make the destination, that you have checked the terminal forecast for your intended destination.

Any kind of flight requires flight planning. Looking at routings, restricted airspace, controlled airspace, VFR and IFR procedures, availability of customs, calculating range and fuel requirements. You don't just jump in an airplane and head off and hope for the best.

Is everyone on this thread purposely avoiding the fact that the father, sitting inches away from, in an airplane with dual controls, is a licensed pilot. That means that he is fully trained to fly an airplane. Get it? That means, that he can assume control of the airplane. he can do take offs and landing from the right seat and probably did so.

I know it throws a spoiler in the extreme drama of this, but it's really not an incredibly high risk feat. Driving in your neighbourhood carries as many if not more risks.

[buddyhu]

Not knowing anyone in the family, I wouldn't be comfortable claiming that I know the motives the underlay the decision to raise the money or to undertake the journey around the world. It is a tragic event. It could have been avoided...but that doesn't mean it should have been avoided.

The phrase "unnecessary risks" is the key element. Few risks are necessary, strictly speaking, because most risks don't relate to biological imperatives for staying alive. This implies that any injury or death could be considered the result of a parenting error. I don't believe this is true. Life is not safe, and it almost always comes to a conclusion that is undesirable (from the point of view of the living).

[patrickgm60]

Originally Posted by bmc

There is no such thing as a license to fly over open water. It does not exist. I'm sure it appeared in some article but the media frequently get it wrong. There are no special skills required to fly over a one, a river, a lake, a sea, etc. Make sure the airplane is serviceable, has plenty of gas to make the destination, that you have checked the terminal forecast for your intended destination.

The article I read stated that the son had recently obtained his instrument rating, with no reference to a "license to fly over open water." Likely a journalistic shortcut.
As a practical matter, flying around the world, including night flight, would require an instrument rating, which, apparently both father and son had. So, I agree with your opinion that, in the abstract, their venture was not particularly risky.

The accident occurred shortly after takeoff, over open water, at night (no mention of weather.) Without further details, who can say how risky that portion of their journey was.

[LouieAtienza]

I feel bad for the loss of a father and son. I don`t question their generosity but I do wonder if their exploits were at least partly self-serving. A circumnavigational flight is not the only way to.raise a half million dollars.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

the outrage on these topics is generated by a fundamental underlying question that boils underneath: "Who owns the children?" In each of us the answer lies somewhere along the continuum:

Family - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Village

Best I can tell, the roots of the "controversy" are here:

Spot on, Bob.

And in all but the most EXTREME examples, the correct answer lies on the "family" side of that continuum.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by patrickgm60

The article I read stated that the son had recently obtained his instrument rating, with no reference to a "license to fly over open water." Likely a journalistic shortcut.
As a practical matter, flying around the world, including night flight, would require an instrument rating, which, apparently both father and son had. So, I agree with your opinion that, in the abstract, their venture was not particularly risky.

The accident occurred shortly after takeoff, over open water, at night (no mention of weather.) Without further details, who can say how risky that portion of their journey was.

Single engine at night, over open water adds a pile of risk. Black Sea, black sky and any kind of emergency could go sideways. It happened to a Gulf Air A320 back in 2001.

The upside of a freshly minted instrument rating is the kid was fresh with his training. Too many pilots get their instrument rating and don't fly instruments enough to really be current or safe. Earlier on in my career, I was based at an airport that had an small carrier with a fleet of Twin Otters. I knew a number of the pilots and many of them said they never really flew on instruments until they became a a line pilot.

Back to this story, it's always sad when anyone loses their life especially at such a young age.

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

I feel bad for the loss of a father and son. I don`t question their generosity but I do wonder if their exploits were at least partly self-serving. A circumnavigational flight is not the only way to.raise a half million dollars.

Well, if we're going to go there, then we're all self-serving in our good deeds. If you say that you are generous because it makes you happy to give of your time and money--then that is a partly self-serving statement. "Oh, so you're being generous because it makes you happy." But what other reason would there be? A srictly sour-faced "this is my duty" mentality? I should hope not. In this case, a father and son wanted to use their love of flying as a vehicle for their generosity. Yes, that is self-serving, but in this context that is a noble thing, because they are using their passion for flying to help others.

[flagstaffcharli]

I just took my kids hiking in grizzly bear country. Maybe I should have plopped them on the couch with a soda and some cartoons instead?

People who dare to dream and have adventures accept some risk. Seventeen is pretty close to adulthood and apparently old enough to enlist in the military. Kids compete in dangerous winter sports in the Olympics. It's pretty subjective.

The fact that the dad and son were in this together ought to be celebrated. It's sad they died , but I think their attempt is a pretty good model for the rest of us. From the little I know, it doesn't seem this kid was forced into this by crazy, selfish parents. Maybe I'm wrong. Half the dads in this country can't even get off the couch on Sunday to play catch with their kids because they're glued to NFL football on the tube. This dad was sharing a dream with his son.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Well, if we're going to go there, then we're all self-serving in our good deeds. If you say that you are generous because it makes you happy to give of your time and money--then that is a partly self-serving statement. "Oh, so you're being generous because it makes you happy." But what other reason would there be? A srictly sour-faced "this is my duty" mentality? I should hope not. In this case, a father and son wanted to use their love of flying as a vehicle for their generosity. Yes, that is self-serving, but in this context that is a noble thing, because they are using their passion for flying to help others.

I couldn`t agree more. Tje problem is we really will never know the true context, other than hearsay. Did they decide to fly around the world , then use that opportunity to raise money for charity? Or did they decide to raise money and use that as opportunity to circumnavigate the world? I never said being self-serving is a bad thing; indeed, we can`t give to others while depriving ourselves.

I`m a man of modest means, and I do donate to charities and causes or a good deed when I can. And I don`t feel guilty about feeling good about it. Plus, if someone dared to ask for my help, I`m glad they thought I was capable of helping. At the same time, I don`t feel the need to parade myself as Mr. Do-Good. I`m not saying that`s necessarily the case here, but I wonder. I also wonder how many hours of flying the son had under his belt and if it was adequate to handle the scenario he faced.

[harmonics101]

This thread is slowly being derailed, from the exploitation of children, to the process of giving to charity, which in and of itself is a total different beast which could also be debated.

H