NGD Martin - What is going on here?

[Aden]

I just bought this Martin and had it shipped from a distant place. She seems a sweet old girl, but there are one or two things that are bothering me.

There is some sticky red stuff on the block, and a black patch to the left of the block (see pic) that translates to the side just above the block when holding the guitar in playing position. Although it looks totally normal from the outside, when pressed that part makes a kind of creaking wood noise.... Please see the pic. Any thoughts on this?

There are also 2 small side cracks but I don't expect they are much of a problem..

Please let me know your thoughts on this..


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[JayBee1404]

Immediate thoughts from a total amateur in these things - that something was removed from the block which had previously been glued there, and that the black patch is a bad attempt at shoring-up a crack.

I'll watch with interest how this thread develops...!!

[Brucebubs]

Sticky stuff on the block suggests a pick up system was installed at some time, possibly with a battery powered pre-amp which was mounted on the block with double sided adhesive.
I have a Martin with a factory installed pick up system, the components inside the guitar are held in place with self-adhesive velcro strips.

[Aden]

Yes I agree the sticky stuff is from a removed pickup system, doesn't look like a repair at all.

The black patch is still confounding me though..


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[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Aden

Yes I agree the sticky stuff is from a removed pickup system, doesn't look like a repair at all.

Whatever caused it, it's incredibly sloppy of the seller to ship the guitar to you looking like that. That gunk on the neckblock should have been cleaned up before the guitar was shipped.

Originally Posted by Aden

The black patch is still confounding me though..

It's probably from a pickup system. A lot of active onboard electronic systems have battery pouches that velcro to the wood of the side or neckblock. I dislike that type of setup because the battery pouches always seem to come loose at the worst possible moment, but some folks don't seem to mind them.


whm

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Aden

The black patch is still confounding me though..


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As Wade mentions above, these systems would often come loose.
That black tape might have just been a piece of 'back-up' for this very reason?

[Wade Hampton]

Here's what I'm talking about with the battery pouch:

˙˙˙

Here's a smaller photo that shows the battery pouch next to the preamp electronics:

˙˙˙

That black strip that both the battery pouch and the preamp are mounted on look identical to the piece of black fabric inside your new guitar, it's just in a different location.

So it seems likely that your guitar had a Fishman Matrix pickup system in it that the seller decided to yank out and either use in another guitar or sell separately.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[JayBee1404]

But what about the 'creaking noise' when the side is pressed in that area? That's what made me think 'crack'.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

But what about the 'creaking noise' when the side is pressed in that area? That's what made me think 'crack'.

In my experience that sort of noise is most often caused by loose braces. There might be a small brace on the top next to the black fabric strip that's come partially unglued.


whm

[JayBee1404]

Aaaaahh! Told you I'm an amateur!

[stillchillin]

Looks like a crack to me and like the pufling above it has been loose too and maybe glued back...just my opinion though...

[OneMansGuitar]

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."

Since you say it creaks when you press the area with the tape, then don't do that.

I would say there is a hairline crack under that tape that has not come through to the outside. So leave it alone. Pressing on it could make the crack worse.

At first I thought the tape was there to give a preamp or battery pack some place to rest without being in contact with the wood, until I read about the creaking.

Other little cracks don't really matter, unless you notice they are growing. The photo suggests the binding had come loose along that edge, which can happen in dry climates, especially if it gets bashed at that point. Again, not a concern unless it gets worse. But it may already be glued or never came loose in the first place.

Otherwise your 1989 D-16 M is a very nice find. They made 660 that year, and just under 1,500 between 1986 and 1990.

These are quite different from later D-16 models that appeared in 1994. Your guitar has the traditional hand-fitted dovetail neck joint, for one thing.

When they first appeared the 16s were sort of to Style 18 what Style 21 was to Style 28. In other words, it has the same level of construction as a D-18, but the wood was less cosmetically perfect for the time. It is typically better than what is used on many a D-18 today.

Like the 21s, the 16s did not get purfling inlaid around the top. But where the D-18 from that era has a black pickguard and binding, the D-16 M has tortoise, before Martin had come out with their Vintage Series 18s, etc.

AND it also has forward-shifted scalloped braces, when the D-18 of that time had non-shifted, non-scalloped braces. So it is more similar to a D-18V than not, without the V neck.

At the start, they also made a much smaller number of D-18 A (ash), D-18 K (koa), as well as like four D-16 O (oak). But many more D-16 Ms.

My main guitar these days is a 1994 000C-16, which has the same construction, but 1/4" forward, scalloped bracing, so it is basically an OMC-18 with a 1-11/16" neck. I own two of them.

The 16s before the change to Mortis and Tenon neck joint and satin finish are not as much a bargain as they once were, now that more people know about them. But they are still a great value for the kind of tone they put out.

[pickoid_1]

You can clearly see the crack in the photo of the side. The duct tape is not a satisfactory repair, IMO. The crack should be cleated.

[SFCRetired]

Originally Posted by OneMansGuitar

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."

Since you say it creaks when you press the area with the tape, then don't do that.

I would say there is a hairline crack under that tape that has not come through to the outside. So leave it alone. Pressing on it could make the crack worse.

At first I thought the tape was there to give a preamp or battery pack some place to rest without being in contact with the wood, until I read about the creaking.

Other little cracks don't really matter, unless you notice they are growing. The photo suggests the binding had come loose along that edge, which can happen in dry climates, especially if it gets bashed at that point. Again, not a concern unless it gets worse. But it may already be glued or never came loose in the first place.

Otherwise your 1989 D-16 M is a very nice find. They made 660 that year, and just under 1,500 between 1986 and 1990.

These are quite different from later D-16 models that appeared in 1994. Your guitar has the traditional hand-fitted dovetail neck joint, for one thing.

When they first appeared the 16s were sort of to Style 18 what Style 21 was to Style 28. In other words, it has the same level of construction as a D-18, but the wood was less cosmetically perfect for the time. It is typically better than what is used on many a D-18 today.

Like the 21s, the 16s did not get purfling inlaid around the top. But where the D-18 from that era has a black pickguard and binding, the D-16 M has tortoise, before Martin had come out with their Vintage Series 18s, etc.

AND it also has forward-shifted scalloped braces, when the D-18 of that time had non-shifted, non-scalloped braces. So it is more similar to a D-18V than not, without the V neck.

At the start, they also made a much smaller number of D-18 A (ash), D-18 K (koa), as well as like four D-16 O (oak). But many more D-16 Ms.

My main guitar these days is a 1994 000C-16, which has the same construction, but 1/4" forward, scalloped bracing, so it is basically an OMC-18 with a 1-11/16" neck. I own two of them.

The 16s before the change to Mortis and Tenon neck joint and satin finish are not as much a bargain as they once were, now that more people know about them. But they are still a great value for the kind of tone they put out.

Very good information here Thanks for sharing that.

This is why the early D16's sound so close to the D18V. They were built like the early D18. Even my 2000 (premicarta\richlite) sounds amazingly close to the D18GE I played a few weeks ago.

I'm still not convinced the Dovetail is that much better than a M&T joint, it's just the M&T gets a bad rap due to them being used on less expensive guitars simply for labor cost issues. The early ones though do have a tendency for the bolt to back out but that is easily fixed if one has a screw driver. The new Simple dovetail is just a M&T with angles built in, similar to the dovetail, to hold the joint together better. But they still put the hole for the bolt in case it's ever needed for repair of the joint, which has happened.

Looking at older D16's it's hard to find one that hasn't had a crack repair or a crack that needs repaired for some reason.

[ricklt]

How about a photo of the whole guitar?

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