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View Poll Results: Do you support this idea and would you be willing to support it?
Nope this idea sucks 7 50.00%
Yes I love the idea and would support it and if it is developed help spread the word 7 50.00%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:56 PM
Burzum1349 Burzum1349 is offline
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Default A website with free "lessons" for players

I have considered starting a website that would allow the users to through a live means be able to literally talk to someone to help with guitar.

I find that its easy to get lost when learning a skill. There are lots of talented players out there that are willing to share information with others for free. I personally feel obligated to do that.

I have always been under the understanding that as an instructor for something you should always give the first lesson free because it allows the student to know if your teaching methods will work with them. It also allows the teacher to show their skills.

Guitar lessons can be expensive, but I have learned everything I have for free. I want to give that back to other players.

I think a structure that allowed donations but didn't charge would be very nice for players of other stages. I personally think it is highway robbery to charge 15 dollars for a half hour of guitar lessons as a beginner, when that knowledge is so easy to come across but as a person new to it you don't know where to start.

Yes an internet search clears some of this up, but in my opinion its so much easier and convenient to find someone that you can directly talk to whether in video or an instant messenger that could literally clear up these things in a matter of seconds versus a half hour search for someone who doesn't know what they are looking for, or fifteen dollars.

I would like to see if there is any support for this. There are websites that are free yes, but that is not what I mean with this. I mean something kind of like this forum, but that shows a list of available online people. It could state what they can help with, their style preferences and so on.

I personally would love this, even just to literally talk to another person in real time can be so helpful. You could talk to other players like personally I like to think of myself as an intermediate guitarist, and its nice to talk to other intermediate guitarists and see what they are learning.

Some people have such limited time to learn what they want and I want this to be a step to help them in that endeavor. Something like this may already exist if so please let me know.

As for the idea please let me know what you think. Any additional ideas or anything really here is welcome.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:03 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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There's some room in between sucks and love. I'd be somewhere in there depending on various things. I think a live website for learners is possible, rather like the sites devoted to people who want to practice a language with other learners. But I don't think you'd be able to staff a site with teachers for free. Jamplay is a membership site and has a lot of interactions with teachers. I didn't care for Jamplay, but it seems very active and popular.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:12 PM
Gmountain Gmountain is offline
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I think there is value in live lessons with a teacher. Some folks like watching them on the internet. I've done it, but to me, it doesn't take the place of a teacher. Some may feel differently.

I was a complete beginner when I started. My first lesson I asked him how I should hold the guitar.

I have no problem paying my teacher. I take weekly lessons; it's been great. He charges $30 for half an hour. I think that's more than reasonable. He has bills to pay like everyone else; He is a professional, he has the knowledge and the ability to impart it, and it's his job.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:29 PM
Burzum1349 Burzum1349 is offline
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Oh I agree with that Gmountain which is where this forum fills a big void for me, to kind of guide me when I'm lost. But I have two kids and stay at home with them and my wife works so I struggle through it and try to save as much as I can. That was really how I was hoping it wouldn't get taken. I fully believe with all my heart that people that are dedicating their life to it definitely deserve their income and believe in paid lessons as well. This I guess was kind of geared toward people like myself that either prefer a self taught method or cannot afford lessons. I just feel like lessons come at a high price sometimes. For example I don't want to pay a teacher to say ok heres how to play barre chords, follow up with me two weeks from now. So I go home work my butt off and then go back and says well you need more work on those. Lol obviously yes, I would love to pay for lessons when I need them without a doubt. I just don't want to follow a course where I'm spending left and right for something that I have the drive and ability to figure out for myself. I however would like to emphasize I see exactly where you are coming from, there are certain thing that teachers can help with that a person who doesn't know any better cant figure out.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:01 PM
Gmountain Gmountain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burzum1349 View Post
Oh I agree with that Gmountain which is where this forum fills a big void for me, to kind of guide me when I'm lost. But I have two kids and stay at home with them and my wife works so I struggle through it and try to save as much as I can. That was really how I was hoping it wouldn't get taken. I fully believe with all my heart that people that are dedicating their life to it definitely deserve their income and believe in paid lessons as well. This I guess was kind of geared toward people like myself that either prefer a self taught method or cannot afford lessons. I just feel like lessons come at a high price sometimes. For example I don't want to pay a teacher to say ok heres how to play barre chords, follow up with me two weeks from now. So I go home work my butt off and then go back and says well you need more work on those. Lol obviously yes, I would love to pay for lessons when I need them without a doubt. I just don't want to follow a course where I'm spending left and right for something that I have the drive and ability to figure out for myself. I however would like to emphasize I see exactly where you are coming from, there are certain thing that teachers can help with that a person who doesn't know any better cant figure out.
I could understand that. I'm not taking a prescribed course though- I just do what interests me. Sure, when I started we went over chords and how to finger them, but each week it was something different. Now it's pretty much I just tell him what I want to work on each time. Last week we talked about arranging a three part piece, which, I admit was over my head, but I still learned something.

But sometimes I'll want to learn a song, or modal scales. Sometimes its rhythm lessons, sometimes strumming patterns, about a third of the time I want to talk about theory. Basically, I read, look online, read things here, and then ask him to help me learn different stuff. He expects me to practice, but it's not like a class where if I don't do something I get in trouble. I might ask about capos, or different tunings.

I believe that you have to be in control about what you want to learn and where you want to go, and where you want to be in a year, or a month or five years.
I don't think you can just show up and expect someone to teach you, but there are group courses like that. I'm an adult though, and it's my money, so I feel like I can ask him to teach me different things. I would imagine it's different if he is teaching a 10 year old. He does have a degree in music education though. I really think that is important.

I feel like I've made great progress. We'll see after five years.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:50 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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Let's see if I'm getting this right. You want a load of teachers to agree to teach for free? Does this mean a commitment to teach as if there was a contract?

You might want to add another question to your poll. Are voters for or against being taught for free or for or against teaching for free?
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:57 PM
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I can't answer. Fine idea. Go for it. But I won't support it.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burzum1349 View Post
I personally think it is highway robbery to charge 15 dollars for a half hour of guitar lessons as a beginner, when that knowledge is so easy to come across but as a person new to it you don't know where to start.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if you also think it's "highway robbery" to pay for music you download, tabs for copywrited songs, sheet music etc. ?

I charge, and have for the last seven years, 40.00 dollars a half hour, but admittedly, I don't teach beginners.

The "knowledge is so easy to come across" statement is off putting as well. Perhaps information is easy to come across. Knowledge and understanding not so much.

I think the idea you're hinting towards is more of an interactive forum. With live opinions. I'd be surprised if you'd get much support from knowledgeable people for free, but what do I know?

Mark
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:52 PM
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I've been a full-time professional musician for many years and part of my income has always been from teaching the guitar. Creating a 'free' service such as the one you are proposing literally makes my life and the life of a multitude of other musicians that much harder.

And who would you ask to work for you for free? What guarantee is there that the person who is willing to do it for free is going to be there week after week for the student?

As you are of the notion that $15 an hour is 'highway robbery' for a beginning guitar student, you obviously haven't considered that a QUALIFIED instructor will teach the student how to do things correctly, and pave their path smoother, thus saving the beginning students countless hours of possible frustration in the future. Who is going to ensure the qualifications of such a teacher, and what QUALIFIED teacher would do that for free on a regular basis?

Also, when you offer such a service for 'free,' you ultimately lessen its value for both the teacher and the student.

The philanthropic idea of 'paying it forward,' only works if everyone benefits. It becomes quite the opposite when working AT the cost of others.

You honestly need to think about the ramifications of what you're proposing. This idea of yours is simply bad on a number of levels.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:15 AM
LeftArm LeftArm is offline
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I don't have a teacher but I have had in the past.
A teacher offers specific support to you rather than just how to play videos. They will guide you on specific technique and present a structured lesson plan to get you where you want to go with your music. It is worth paying the money needed to get a good teacher.
I can see where the logic of the site idea comes from. There are loads of people offering free video lessons on youtube etc. and live lessons seems like an extension of this. The quality of free online video is not consistent and although there are some that are really good there are a lot of poorly presented lessons. How will you vet those that are offering the free lessons?
And a practical consideration, LickandRiffs Classical Gas tutorial has received 435,800 hits on youtube. It is 35 minutes long. If Lickandriff was to offer free half hour lessons this would be 24 years and 10 months of his life with no stopping to sleep or eat etc.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:40 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Walker View Post
I've been a full-time professional musician for many years and part of my income has always been from teaching the guitar. Creating a 'free' service such as the one you are proposing literally makes my life and the life of a multitude of other musicians that much harder.

And who would you ask to work for you for free? What guarantee is there that the person who is willing to do it for free is going to be there week after week for the student?

--snip --

Also, when you offer such a service for 'free,' you ultimately lessen its value for both the teacher and the student.

--snip --
I only teach when someone asks me to - usually after seeing me perform.

I always give the first one free for the reasons that you mention. There has to be a person to person relationship as well as a musical direction.

Toby mentions what I would call "value perception". There MUST be a charge both to advantage the teacher for passing on skills, but also for the student to appreciate, at least, part of the real value.

I charge £25 ($32USD) per hour as I have done for years, but the hour is rarely only 60 minutes, and I prepare cheat sheets and notes for free.

I know a few guitarists for whom teaching is a significant part of their income - for me it isn't, and I am time rich, and I really enjoy it!

Teaching guitar is far more than teaching guitar! It is essential that the student be helped to decide his/her aspirations /direction, and that the teacher can take them in that direction. I have found that this will include posture, guitar care & maintenance, and often purchase, and not least - singing skills. Brits often need to get over our natural reserved "shyness" in order to open our throats and SING! ...and to get the offbeat!

I only have one student at present. He says he looks forward all week to his visit, and has offered to drive me to hospital and back, more than my band mates!

There is a lot of Free stuff on YouTube, and I have considered doing some thing similar, and I have picked up some good stuff there.

Some fine British Bluegrass musicians teach one-to one, in workshops, and increasingly via Skype and i-chat. Leon Hunt (champion banjo player)
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:48 AM
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I would suggest the place to start is by searching out and comparing all the currently available free lessons to see what is being offered to the world now.

From that , you may easily see a gap in services that your skills could fill.

I do think your poll is narrow in scope and unlikely to provide you with the kind of information that these kinds of decisions benefit from.

Toby and others have provided very good advice from their experiences.

Good luck.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:29 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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I agree with Gmoutain

If I am going to take lesson's it's going to be in person. ( my lessons are $27 for a half hour). I'm not a fan of needing to have sit in front of my computer or have my phone in use when learning guitar or playing guitar. I completely avoid Band in a box, skype, DVD's etc....

They are great tools for some, but I prefer in person instruction. .





Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmountain View Post
I think there is value in live lessons with a teacher. Some folks like watching them on the internet. I've done it, but to me, it doesn't take the place of a teacher. Some may feel differently.

I was a complete beginner when I started. My first lesson I asked him how I should hold the guitar.

I have no problem paying my teacher. I take weekly lessons; it's been great. He charges $30 for half an hour. I think that's more than reasonable. He has bills to pay like everyone else; He is a professional, he has the knowledge and the ability to impart it, and it's his job.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:15 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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For me, the idea of helping others via a web site is a great idea. However, here is the problem I think such a web site REALLY needs to solve....

Structure! There are a lot of web sites, books, DVDs, and live teachers to teach people guitar. However, there is very, very little structure. Somebody who is learning to play the guitar needs hand holding and a strong sense of direction.

A good teacher can provide this. Unfortunately it is very difficult to find a GOOD teacher among all that is available today. It always seems as if a given media or teacher for guitar either starts somewhere in the middle, goes for a short distance, and then ends before taking the student anywhere of lasting value, or starts at the beginning, but never really goes anywhere.

The student ends up with a patchwork of this and that, and then is stuck trying to piece all that together to make some kind of sense out of it.

What is needed is somebody who cares enough, has the patience, to do a really thorough job, from start to finish. When I read reviews of any course it seems that the reviewer says either that the course tries to cover too much or not enough, or lacks structure.

When somebody asks a question on the forum, that person is literally deluged with all manner of opinion, much of it conflicting. Do learn the notes on the fretboard. No, don't bother, do this instead. Here is how to learn the notes on the fretboard - and suddenly there are 20 different ways to choose from.

How does anybody learn anything with all this going on?

If you REALLY want to help a person learn, you have to help that person determine what his or her musical goals are, set a comprehensive plan, step by step to get there, and be able to explain for each step WHY this step is important, HOW it fits into the overall plan, HOW to do the step and WHEN the student knows s/he has completed that step well enough to go on, fully prepared to the next step.

Such caring and structure is not how our culture works. We want it now, let's just get it done, here is the little piece of the big picture I know - so go else where to get the next piece, etc. The student doesn't know where to go to get the next piece, and is too often left to figure that out for him or herself.

If you REALLY want to help via a web site, put together a comprehensive course that teaches what music theory is REALLY needed, how each little piece of that works on the fretboard to make music, and the technique needed to use that piece of information to make music.

Unfortunately, it would take a skilled teacher (not necessarily a highly skilled player) to take the time and effort to put such a course together, and then a student who is willing to forego the quick fix to invest in the long term to take such a course.

Please, don't just create another patchwork of a ton of disjointed ideas. We already have far too much of that. Make a real, solid, cohesive and comprehensive musical online mentorship that walks the student from the first beginning stages, to at least the point where the student can then take control of his or her learning efforts in making sense of the huge pile of information available to continue learning in those areas specific to that student's goals.

I suggest that this site should provide:

1. a very clear statement of the intentions, end goal, and the plan in between to get the student from where he or she is at the beginning stages to the end goal.
2. A course outline showing exactly how this will happen.
3. Well designed lessons that conform to the overall plan and truly take the student step by step to the end goal.
4. An overall consistency in its approach and presentation at every step of the way.
5. The end goal should be to truly educate the student on the guitar so that the person can continue to learn on his or her own, making informed decisions and having developed a solid ability to really focus on the learning process in a manner that insures continued success.

Forget about teaching this or that cool lick, or any other guitar skill in isolation, leaving the student to try to figure how all this fits together. We truly don't need any more of that because the world already has far too much of this sort of teaching. Remember that "half measures avail us nothing".

Unfortunately, to do this right, and really do right by the student, takes time and an enormous amount of effort. I have been involved in this sort of teaching and it is nearly a full time job in itself. That is how it is when we decide to really do things well, rather than just throwing something together haphazardly and helping no one in the end. In my personal opinion, we would not have folks playing for 30 years or more, and still having not developed the most fundamental musical skills. in other words, the patchwork, piecemeal, haphazard approach, in my opinion, wastes far more time than it seems to save at the time it is being done.

Learning to play guitar is a long term commitment, and teaching somebody to play guitar is likewise a long term commitment.

If somebody follows up to this post saying, we already have that, then instead of creating yet another site, point to that site or resource and really help potential students find something worth their time.

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 04-19-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:24 AM
EllaMom EllaMom is offline
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In total agreement, Tony. I've done my fair share of flailing around the last few years, trying to learn to play music, not just songs, on guitar.

It occurs to me that some teachers are better at delivering one course, while others might be better at others. In grade school I had one teacher who taught everything, math, reading, writing, etc. Starting in middle school, and right through graduate school, I had different teachers for different disciplines. Perhaps if a teacher knows s/he is not skilled, or interested, in teaching music theory, s/he should at least know enough to see that the student still needs this course, and so recommends another teacher or resource to get that information.

Also, I'm guessing that a fair number of teachers have students who don't stick with it long enough, and/or aren't motivated enough, to be able to absorb or appreciate what's being taught. How frustrating that must be! I'm guessing it is quite common with beginners and early intermediates.

It's a puzzle, for sure. But for me at least, one worth figuring out!
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