Non tuning specific flatpicking exercises?

[maxr]

After a few weeks messing with tunings for playing fiddle tunes I ended up with my guitar in fiddle/mandolin all 5ths tuning - cGDAEB. The c is an octave above 'strict' 5ths tuning as I can't get a string to work at that pitch on my very short scale guitar. Chording is kinda limited, but finding the notes of fiddle tunes is a breeze (for a fiddler...)

Where I'm at - I can pick fiddle tunes slowed down a little either off the dots or by ear, but my picking's not accurate or rhythmic enough and I haven't got stuff like triplets and pulloffs at all sorted.

So, can anyone please recommend effective flatpicking speed and accuracy exercises that are not specific to a guitar tuning? I don't mind if they're boring as long as they work, and I'd as soon have them printable or in a book as on video.

Thanks, Max

[Ten]

Bryan Sutton has this type of material with videos and printable tablature if you join his artist works website. He’s real focused on the 8th note alternate up down picking pattern as the key to flat picking in general, and then applying that to more advanced use of hammer ons, pull offs, crosspicking, etc. Every flatpicking teacher I’ve used pushes this method as the foundation for the style.

[simpl man]

Picking scales as described above is a pretty good way to start.

Gets you familiar with the alternating (down/ up) pick strokes while changing strings, as well the "right" notes under your fingers. You could try the Major (7 note) and Pentatonic (5 note) scales in the various keys. Go slow at first.

I think the next step would be playing actual tunes & etudes using the same concept. I started with "Turkey in the Straw" in G.

Hope this helps.

[BFD]

Originally Posted by Ten

Bryan Sutton has this type of material with videos and printable tablature if you join his artist works website. He’s real focused on the 8th note alternate up down picking pattern as the key to flat picking in general, and then applying that to more advanced use of hammer ons, pull offs, crosspicking, etc. Every flatpicking teacher I’ve used pushes this method as the foundation for the style.

I've spent time studying w/Bryan also, but none of his stuff will do you any good in the tuning you're using.
Rather than spending time learning and then working on drills, I'd recommend you use the tunes you want to play (and already know) for tempo and accuracy work. Might as well kill 2 birds w/one stone. Just do the same thing you'd have to do w/drills, namely slow them down as much as you have to in order to play them both accurately and rhythmically. Most people don't do this (including me for years). This is the fastest way to get a fiddle tune (or anything) up to speed and played cleanly.
The tunes will teach you most of what you need to know. And Ten is right on the money re: alternate picking - it's the engine for all basic bluegrass & old-time style flatpicking. Then you can branch out if you're looking to do jigs, Celtic ornamentation, crosspicking, etc.

[Ten]

BFD makes a good point in the tuning that I hesitated to bring up, but...I’m a bit stumped as to why you’ve made the decision to tune like this. I’d recommend sticking with the tried and true standard tuning (which most if not all study material is written for), and using a capo as needed to match key and utilize open chord positions.

[FwL]

You could just use the tunes you're working on as exercises to develop your picking.

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[jfitz81]

For me, it was super helpful to see a few tunes transcribed with the pick strokes (up/down) included, especially if I also had a sound clip to listen to. As others have pointed out, that alternating picking motion is a big part of the sound, and hammer-ons/pull-offs/slides were all techniques my left hand could do but my right hand had to re-learn, if that makes sense. Flatpick.com has a bunch of free lessons, and the Flatpick Essentials books include great material as well.

But it's all in standard tuning, as far as I know. Without going as far as to say you shouldn't try to learn in a non-standard tuning (though that's what I think), I'll say it's probably easier to learn the right-hand technique first in standard tuning. Once you have the idea, re-tune and go crazy.

***OR***

If you're learning with a mandolin tuning, could you just find some mandolin resources? I'll bet the folks at mandolin café could point you in the right direction...

[Guitar Slim II]

It's not so much the specific exercises as the technique -- and also knowing how to practice technique exercises. (Both of which are subjects for another post).

But if you're clear on your mechanics, and know how to develop them with meticulous practice, then just about anything will work: straight up-and-down scales, coils, fiddle tunes, scale passages from your favorite tunes. I daresay tunes and excerpts would be the most practical approach, IMO.

[maxr]

The reason I picked this tuning (for those who asked) is that as a fiddler who has played cello, it's a no-brainer for playing fiddle and mandolin tunes with 0-1-3-4 and 0-1-2-4 fingerings - unless you're already an experienced flatpicking guitarist, which I'm not. I can sight read fiddle range tunes straight off the page without moving my hand from frets 0-7, and pick out tunes I know on fiddle by ear. Yes, I could play them on fiddle mandolin, or tenor guitar in fiddle/mandolin tuning - but this little guitar has a sound of it own in this tuning, and chording using the high B 1st string is halfway between the mandolin 'chirp' and a mandola twang.

mandolincafe has been very helpful also for finding usable chord sources.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by maxr

After a few weeks messing with tunings for playing fiddle tunes I ended up with my guitar in fiddle/mandolin all 5ths tuning - cGDAEB. The c is an octave above 'strict' 5ths tuning

What about the B? is that a 5th above the E??

[maxr]

Originally Posted by JonPR

What about the B? is that a 5th above the E??

Yes, it is. This guitar is only 21.5" scale length with a parlour guitar size body. The .008 tuned up to B is pretty taut, but has been on there for about a month without breaking. Currently it's a standard D'Addario plain steel string, but when it does break I'll try a D'Addario NYXL on that and the 2nd - they're claimed to be super high carbon and very resistant to breaking even when bent a long way on an electric.

[jfitz81]

Originally Posted by maxr

Yes, it is. This guitar is only 21.5" scale length with a parlour guitar size body. The .008 tuned up to B is pretty taut, but has been on there for about a month without breaking. Currently it's a standard D'Addario plain steel string, but when it does break I'll try a D'Addario NYXL on that and the 2nd - they're claimed to be super high carbon and very resistant to breaking even when bent a long way on an electric.

Sorry, because I know this isn't the purpose of your post, but I can't help thinking that you're going to a lot of trouble to learn things that won't be very applicable in most situations. I mean, once you get the hang of some fiddle tunes, would you always play them on this parlour-size guitar with specialized strings? Maybe so, but fiddle tunes tend to get played in an ensemble, in which case you'll likely want more volume. Just seems like you'd be devoting a lot of time to developing a very limited skill.

[maxr]

Well, 'most situations' don't apply to me so that doesn't matter - I don't play in rock or jazz bands, but I do go to folk sessions in bars where people just turn up and play whatever happens together.

And, small steel string guitars often have a lot of punch. With the high tuning, this one is more audible through a group of people playing than most dreadnoughts, even though it has little bass end.

I'm investigating modifying the all 5ths tuning to Robert Fripp's CGADEG, as that gives a bit more 'ring' to the top end of the sound and may have more open chords available. The process won't be to 'get the hang of some fiddle tunes', like one might when e.g. first learning banjo - I already know hundreds of fiddle tunes on fiddle from memory. The object is to be able, after a bit of practise, to play them straight off from memory on guitar with enough partial chords to make it interesting. Fifths tuning makes that a lot easier for me. I last played guitar seriously 20 years ago, so I've lost the guitar based muscle memory of the fretboard layout, but have 'cello fingering' (0-1-2-4 and 0-1-3-4) still hard wired in from, err, cello playing .

[FwL]

Scales make excellent picking drills. It would be worth your while to work out fingerings for the major scale n common keys on the guitar.


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[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by maxr

After a few weeks messing with tunings for playing fiddle tunes I ended up with my guitar in fiddle/mandolin all 5ths tuning - cGDAEB. The c is an octave above 'strict' 5ths tuning as I can't get a string to work at that pitch on my very short scale guitar. Chording is kinda limited, but finding the notes of fiddle tunes is a breeze (for a fiddler...)

Where I'm at - I can pick fiddle tunes slowed down a little either off the dots or by ear, but my picking's not accurate or rhythmic enough and I haven't got stuff like triplets and pulloffs at all sorted.

So, can anyone please recommend effective flatpicking speed and accuracy exercises that are not specific to a guitar tuning? I don't mind if they're boring as long as they work, and I'd as soon have them printable or in a book as on video.

Thanks, Max

The most non-boring flatpicking exercises I do are actually two classical tunes, Bach's Invention in Am, and Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca. Both involve some string-skipping, position shifts, inside picking, outside picking. And since most are familiar with the melodies, I find it pretty easy to gauge how accurately I pick by how cleanly they sound when I record it. So if there's a passage I flub, it's a technique I need to clean up.

Two great ones for picking are Paganini's 5th Caprice, Bach's Preludio in E (picked, not hybrid picked)... I haven't worked on those in a while come to think about it, wonder if I still remember them!

Another good exercise is 3-note per string modes, starting with F major, to G dorian, to A Phrygian, to Bb Lydian, to C mixolydian, to D aeloian (minor), to E locrian. But if you alternate pick it, get to the top and reverse it, when you get back to the bottom it's a down stroke. Then if you need a challenge, learn the modes of melodic minor and harmonic minor (some evil stretches). I don't think I remember either...