#46
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Tell me about it.. Look at the toll it took on my hands!
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Ibanez Artwood AC900 Eng/EIR Yamaha LL16 Eng/EIR Webber OM Eng/EIR ♫ Transcriptions (Yes, my PM Inbox is always full. For now, please send me an email at [my agf username]@gmail.com ) |
#47
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Here's some updated pics that Mary sent yesterday.
I'll let Tim explain what's going on here. I sorta feel like a guinea pig. (Though I think he's doing this to several, if not all, of his guitars for Healdsburg). Start with this picture: http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/McK...d/img_2041.htm But for those too lazy to follow the link and see all the pics, I'll post the final result here (just because this is too cool): Yeah, baby, we got carbon fiber in the McKnight! |
#48
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Interesting....do those rods counteract the tendency of the string tension to stretch/deform the back?
Wonder when luthiers will start using carbon nanotube rods That's a lot of pictures on the site. Who takes them? Mary?
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Ibanez Artwood AC900 Eng/EIR Yamaha LL16 Eng/EIR Webber OM Eng/EIR ♫ Transcriptions (Yes, my PM Inbox is always full. For now, please send me an email at [my agf username]@gmail.com ) |
#49
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Looks similar to the buttress bracing that Greg uses on his Gwaltney builds. My understanding on Greg's builds is that he uses it for additional structural support as he also incorporates a cantilevered neck in the design. Since I don't think Tim is using a cantilevered neck, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.
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Andrew White Production: Cybelle 112 Rosewood/Sitka Andrew White Production: Cybele 312C Crossover Rosewood/Red Cedar Clark: A-Wedge Koa/Snkr Rdwd 12-str Clark: A-Wedge Monkeypod/Snkr Rdwd Cornerstone: Zion All Koa Cornerstone: Tenor Ukulele Prototype #2 All Koa Fay: OM Mac Eb/Englemann Stehr: Aud. Braz/Snkr Rdwd 8-str Plaid Coyote's gone home to play |
#50
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Quote:
But, yes, it does look very similar to what Greg's using in his guitars. Thanks for mentioning that. I wasn't aware of it. If you go to this page, and look at the 16th picture in the slide-show, you'll see the similarities (and differences): http://www.gwaltneyguitars.com/the_p...he_process.htm Greg's using 4 tubes (one high and one low per side), compared to Tim's 2 tubes. |
#51
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Maybe it has to do with the hollow back design? I love it when builders develop these "different" things that get you thinking "hmmm, I wonder what that's for"...
O.K. Tim, inquiring minds want to know Quote:
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Andrew White Production: Cybelle 112 Rosewood/Sitka Andrew White Production: Cybele 312C Crossover Rosewood/Red Cedar Clark: A-Wedge Koa/Snkr Rdwd 12-str Clark: A-Wedge Monkeypod/Snkr Rdwd Cornerstone: Zion All Koa Cornerstone: Tenor Ukulele Prototype #2 All Koa Fay: OM Mac Eb/Englemann Stehr: Aud. Braz/Snkr Rdwd 8-str Plaid Coyote's gone home to play |
#52
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Here's an even better picure of what Greg's doing with his guitars:
Hope Mark Kunkel doesn't mine me stealing this pic out of his build thread (that I just saw). |
#53
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Also from Mark's thread . . . . looks like Ibanez is also doing something similar (but with wood instead of carbon fiber):
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#54
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Welllllll .... Since you asked... I have a 12 string in this batch which got the creative juices flowing. My biggest fear, building 12 strings, is the added string tension and its affects on the top, back and more importantly the added risk of an impending neck reset down the road. I strive to build my guitars light, responsive and on the cusp of implosion. This added tension also adds to the risk of things moving around, especially in a 12 string design.
So I threw away all my previous design notions and set out to see if I could come up with a way to shift the neck torque to another, less venerable, area of the guitar. Knowing that any curved surface is inherently stiffer and stronger than any flat surface I put on my thinking cap and asked myself some design questions which led to the pictures you are viewing. As the strings are drawn taught the neck is pulled upward by the string tension. In a conventional guitar design this torque is transferred mostly to the top which is loaded under compression and to the back which is being pulled in tension. In essence the top is trying to move inward while the back is trying to flatten out. The upper transverse brace, located above the sound hole, attempts to distribute this load into the sides. The arched back braces play a role to try to maintain the back arch and keep it from flattening due to the neck pull. The problem with the design of most common upper transverse braces, the brace is at full height until it reaches near the ends where it tapers to near zero. In essence the brace is no stronger than the ends are tall so this is one reason why those designs can have issues with the sound holes sinking in. If you examine architecture you quickly see that diagonal braces are used to make a structure stiffer and less prone to movement. If you view the guitar sound box from the side it is basically a rectangle. All of the string torque is loaded into one end of the rectangle, because that is where the neck is attached. Therefore adding a diagonal brace to a rectangular box adds tremendous stiffness. The rectangle then is transformed into two triangular shapes which is one of the stiffest natural shapes used in design. Without a top on my sound boxes I could easily deflect the neck block area by adding a slight amount of down force to the neck block extension. Once the top is glued on this stiffens up this area BUT it still can deflect over time. This deflection is what leads to higher action and the need to reset the neck many years down the road. I decided to add two diagonal braces from the neck block down to the waist, which is one of the stiffest areas in the sound box. The torque of the neck is now transferred into the stiffest area of the sound box. Theoretically this should take the load from the top and back and distribute it. It should also remove the compression and tension for the top and back and therefore allow the top and back plates to vibrate more efficiently. Well at least that is my theory, at this point. The proof will be in the feedback that we get at Healdsburg PS - I just posted this answer / explanation without having any knowledge of what Greg and Ibenez are doing. Notice, that I don't claim to be the first to use this design but I was only drawing from archetechtural design elements. Greg's design is pretty cool looking and I can see where it would add a great deal of rigidity to the soundbox. One of my design goals was to use the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) which I think I have accomplished. This also coincides with another element of my design goals to keep the soundbox light and responsive. Last edited by Tim McKnight; 02-08-2009 at 02:37 PM. |
#55
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Hang in there, Kurt. I ain't done with him, yet.
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... make a joyful noise ... http://www.mcknightguitars.com AGF MCKNIGHT GUITAR SNIPPETS https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=663228 I'll continue "Doin' Life ... As a Luthier's Wife" McJam = Guitar private event June 21-22, 2024 [email protected] Pre-sign is required and begins now. |
#56
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Yepper - I take pictures so our customers will feel like they are here. I feel they should know exactly what they are spending their money on. Many of our customers, whom I prefer to call them or McKnight Guitar family, would never see the views of their guitar(s) this wife can get while her luthier husband is working.
Customers would be respectful of his space. As a wife, experience has taught me to know when to slip a camera in for a shot. I can shoot pictures as I am holding items, taping binding, designing another guitar, writing letters, reading, or... eating Christmas cookies. Every Saturday, for several years, Tim and I have had breakfast in the shop. Many picnics lunches have been shared there so we can continue to work for our customers. Most all of our evenings are spent in the wood shop, where the guitar music fills the air. Occasionally the music is broken by the planer, saw, drill, sander, etc... Tim has his side of the bench and I have mine. With each step, each day, every minute, we are very well aware of where the camera is so McKnight customers don't lose a shot of knowing where Tim is in their build. I haven't made a grand announcement at this point, but I am planning the 2009 McJam gathering in our wood shop. If you or and your friends are interested in joining us, Songwriterfan, Yamaha Junkie and a few others who have pre-signed up, please let me know. We'd love to have you come by and spy on Songwriter's guitar build in the making!
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... make a joyful noise ... http://www.mcknightguitars.com AGF MCKNIGHT GUITAR SNIPPETS https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=663228 I'll continue "Doin' Life ... As a Luthier's Wife" McJam = Guitar private event June 21-22, 2024 [email protected] Pre-sign is required and begins now. |
#57
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So, are you pushing for an all-walnut first, or an all-koa?
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#58
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Quote:
Aloha, Hen But we digress... Sorry SWF, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Now back to the build...more pics please!
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Andrew White Production: Cybelle 112 Rosewood/Sitka Andrew White Production: Cybele 312C Crossover Rosewood/Red Cedar Clark: A-Wedge Koa/Snkr Rdwd 12-str Clark: A-Wedge Monkeypod/Snkr Rdwd Cornerstone: Zion All Koa Cornerstone: Tenor Ukulele Prototype #2 All Koa Fay: OM Mac Eb/Englemann Stehr: Aud. Braz/Snkr Rdwd 8-str Plaid Coyote's gone home to play Last edited by hnuuhiwa; 02-08-2009 at 04:30 PM. |
#59
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I have seen Lucas' design (only in pictures on the net) but our goals are different. His is targeted towards a braceless top, mine is targeted towards moving the string pull induced torque away from the top and back plates. In theory, mine should allow the top and back plates to react [differently] to string vibrations but time will tell in August I've been wrong before and have not been fond of eating crow ;(
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#60
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Quote:
I've never played an all-koa guitar (and I'd be interested in your take if you have), but I have played a couple all-hog guitars and found them quite intriguing. That said, I'll likely end up with a cedar-topped guitar that will make far more sense for me. But it doesn't hurt to put a burr under Tim's saddle blanket once in awhile! |