#16
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Now, be honest...
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Truthfully, have you played a bunch of these and LEARNED to hate them or is this all hearsay?..I can't seem to get direct answers to my questions...read below.
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Barrett |
#17
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Well, I for one have played one and I have to agree with the majority of posts/replys here. They SUCK! i played one a friend's wife bought and had to hurry from the house so she wouldn't see me throw up. a week later I played a Wal-Mart "First Act" acoustic and it was ten times the guitar at the same or lesser price.
Save yourselves the shipping cost and the grief folks, go to Wally-World if that'sd what you're after.
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more guitars and stuff than I deserve |
#18
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There are many...many...many reviews online pronouncing them crap and.....we are all just prejudiced against them. If they really are crap....what evidence would there be that we don't have. They are crap. Trust us. Last edited by Abdiel; 08-15-2005 at 05:15 PM. |
#19
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That 'bout says it all....
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To begin with, I, myself , have been playing guitar for over thirty years and have own MANY outstanding guitars. Some of them were "off brands" that I found by chance because I LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS and ignore the rest. There is the distinct possibility that if an Estaban rivaled a Martin you would not see or hear it do to your preconcieved notions about Estaban and his marketing about which I know nothing. Perhaps because I have better things to do than watch tv at 3:00 am.(like sleep) Now, as for a quarum...you have at least ONE dissenting voice. MINE. I happen to have a guitar that I inherited that doesn't suck and actually is kinda ok (for a beginner type which my late father-in-law was) that has the name Estaban on it. So much for the "everybody says" crap. Only those with negative comments and personal grievances bothered to reply. Only Pistolero took into consideration that they are market specific.And more appalling yet is what "experts" you guys are who have either NEver played one or have played ONLY one. I gotta tell ya...I've played Taylors that I thought sucked and were GREATLY over priced and over marketed. Well built , yes , but so what...They ain't furniture, they're guitars.If they don't sound good to me I don't call them crap (even if I think hey are) I call them not for me, thank you. I can understand a luthiers' standpoint. They are quite cheaply built...at least this one is. I don't know about the others. I haven't played them. So, what I'm saying is GROW UP! If you have something to say that you feel would be illuminating about the guitar I'd love to hear it otherwise ....well, you get my point, I'm sure.
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Barrett |
#20
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I've seen, played and heard enough about them to tell anybody who tells me that they are thinking about buying one to go almost any other route they can find.
As for when I said "We are all just prejudiced against them" apparently your sarcasm meter is in need of new batteries. LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS all you want. I'd suggest that if anyone you care to keep as a friend asks you what beginner guitar to buy that you "LOOK FOR POSITIVE THINGS" about any number of other less expensive and much better guitars. If an Esteban ever did rival a Martin as you suggest I would indeed hear it if I was in the same room with it because I feel compelled to pick them up out of morbid curiousity if nothing else. I guess if the three edited sentences that you posted were all that I told you then...yeah I guess that is kind of shakey. But when you consider that there you can't just go to a Guitar Center or any other local store to try one out then I think that ...ok...not "everyone" if you insist on being pedantic, hates them...but almost everyone who has come in to contact with one thinks they are rubbish then yes, I think there just may be a grain of truth. Two out of two for me were crap. I've heard similar numbers from many others. (BTW..I was looking for "everyone" in my original post and can't seem to find it. ) I'm thrilled that you got the 1 in 100 Estebans that apparently has held up. All I was asking is what kind of evidence you wanted to hear to confirm that warning people off of these pieces of junk was a good general policy. Last edited by Abdiel; 08-15-2005 at 05:21 PM. |
#21
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dthumb: first, it's "EstEban"--"Stephen" in Spanish.
second: "Quorum" doesn't mean unanimous-it's a Robert's Rule defining a required majority of a consituted body enabling them to move, second, discuss and vote on a motion validly-"quorum" in many cases is a simple majority, which could be 51% vs. 49%. In this case, there is "quorum" on Esteban guitars. The motion that they stink passes by overwhelming majority. Now--you are a bit defensive, having inherited one. That is fine, and if you like it, find it playable and can use it for a boat or beach instrument, more power to you. No one is dissing YOU. Perhaps, like many high quality instruments that vary one to another, you "inherited" a decently made one. That is certainly not the majority opinion from those who have owned or played them, including a respected luthier on this site, or reviews of them on Harmony Central (which is far from an objective site, I know-but there are MANY reviews!). I believe MY main axe to grind with him has to do with the portrayal of this instrument as rivaling a 5k+ Martin 40 series; combine that with many who have gotton materially defective guitars, tried to return them to QVC, or wherever and gotton stonewalled, had the black "stain" on the fretboard rub off on their fingers or clothing, or had their guitars simply "explode," and his incessant dropping of Andres Segovia's name, and you can sense the tip of the iceberg. And you don't have to stay up until 3:00 a.m. to catch his infomercial; it's on all sorts of times during the programming day. He also sells CD's of himself, and plays in hotel lounges. Without his "Zorro" outfit, you'd never recognize Stephen Paul as "Esteban." On the plus side, many here have agreed he has some chops, and can play guitar. It's just doubtful he would ever play a real "gig" with the guitar he hawks. Kevin Gallagher's suggestion to take an interested guitar novice to a music shop just seems so much more rational, don't you think? Meanwhile, enjoy what you play, and play what you enjoy. Peace, bro.
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"It takes all kinds to make a world...including the kinds who think only their kind belong in it." (unknown) "Next To the Word of God, music deserves the highest praise." (Martin Luther) 1992 Taylor 855 2000 Deering Sierra 2009 Recording King RD-16SN ~ "utility" 2009 Martin HD-28 |
#22
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DB, Don't feel too bad. I own a Martin Backpacker (also a gift). I happen to like the guitar (I think I'm the only one.)
Try putting THAT in your signature line. BTW, I wouldn't trade it for a 1941 D-28 straight up! Somebody try me!
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Bring 'em on home!!! |
#23
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I had assumed that My father-in -law was lucky to get one with a decent tone and playability.But, I was still curious about WHY all the prejudice. I still am. It is, after all, only a guitar..a beginner guitar at that. One more little thing.... I REALLY don't need instructions for judging the quality of a guitar. As an experienced player, I have those tools as I'm sure you do as well.What I was looking for is some REAL information and an explanation as to why they are so dispised here.
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Barrett |
#24
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Bring 'em on home!!! |
#25
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Doesn't say that on MY headstock...
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And , the bulk of the responses had to do with marketing, not wheather or not they sound ok, what they cost, what makes them so bad..just ranting. It would be as if you found a MArtin in an attic and had never heard one before and, for some reason it sounded awful so you assumed thats what MArtins sound like..the same ting only the opposite circumstances apply. BTW...That quorum thing...Roberts rules apply only to a given body...I woukd never assume that this group represented Estabans' group. Personally, I think it'll make a great boat guitar and back up life raft
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Barrett |
#26
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Would you mind posting your "specific" questions again. Apart from "how much are they" I'm having trouble finding them?
Let me give you some specifics. (If I seem passionate about this...I am. I have a relative duped into buying one of these and I also happen to teach marketing among other things so I am particularly offended by the way he sells his rubbish.) Sound: Volume was very low...a very dead sounding guitar. The sound that did droop out of it was thin. No low end at all worth mentioning. If I picked it up as brand new..with the fit and finish in perfect condition along side of the Samicks and Seagulls that are also sold by my local shop I'd have strummed it about twice and put it down. $50 would be to much for it. Fit and Finish: The original color of the fingerboard..."wood?"...was showing through the stain. The finish was gloss but very uneven. Looks like they gave it about one coat with a rag and didn't bother to touch up any uneven spots. The finish was bubbled up in places. It had dings in a few places...I'm going to give Esteban the benifit of the doubt and not blame him for those....but everywhere it was dinged the finish had chipped off as well. I will give it this much.....the frets were still stuck to the fretboard....fairly uncommon to these guitars I'm given to understand. The "gold" was coming off of the tuners. Hope this helps. Anyway....I'm sorry if this got too heated or out of hand. Nothing personal at all. I just really can't stand this guy's little scam. |
#27
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I can appreciate that...
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Barrett |
#28
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What you guys all don't seem to grasp is:
#1) Esteban makes and sells a whole bunch of cheap, poorly built guitar clones that are produced in the worst slave labor camps in Asia. #2) His sales are so great on HSN, or QVC, that a small portion of the product is being sub-contracted through a certian "quality" shop in Nazareth, PA. THAT'S why you'll run across a great Esteban every once in awhile. Give the guy credit where it's due. Look who he studied under... |
#29
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You sure about #2?
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Barrett |
#30
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Enough arguing over "bargain" guitars. Hey, how about them Blueridges?
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"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean, |