Relining a '70s Guild case

[acme97]

Hello all,

I bought (and overpaid) for a '70s Guild blue interior-lined case to fit a recent acquisition of mine. Well, it was as-is with a "slight" mold/mildew smell I thought I could eradicate. I had success with two previous cases, but this one...no luck. No amount of sunlight (aside from propping it open on Mercury, maybe) got rid of this slight but different odor from all my other (and many) vintage cases. This one had a problem. Nothing to lose, I carefully disemboweled it outside. The mold was in the cardboard and foam, and I think the wood. It really burned my bacon, so I'm going to reline it. I totally see how it's done, but I have some questions.

I simply cannot believe these case-makers back in the day worried about putting "natural fiber" materials in these cases. Seems to me all the faux fur, just like the "Guild light blue" as I've come to call it from that era, could have been nothing else but man-made fiber. Am I correct?

The mold itself I think is in the wood has met it's match and will be killed dead, but actually I see very few signs of it. But one sign is enough. I know Zinnzer shellac has been recommended to seal the wood. Why not the Zinnzer mold-inhibiting latex? I happen to have a bit of that here at the house. Is that overkill or over time bad for the guitar in the case?

The guitar going in the case is a late '70s Guild 12-string, so that's a nitro finish.

I saved all the original lining but I think that is just a lost cause. Has anyone here relined a case, and could point me to where I can order the fabric? I would love to get that original blue, but if not...then I would go cotton velour for the look you see in the high-end TKL cases.

Hope I get some input, and thanks!

[CaffeinatedOne]

I relined a case once. I upholstered it as well - with naugahyde. Some things we do because they have never been done, and when they are finished, we feel a sense of accomplishment. Good thing, too, as we never really come up with a decent answer to "You did what? Why?"

In my case (heh) I figured what the heck, and besides I was in high school. My guitar case for my old Gibson was busted up chipboard held together with a bungee cord. I picked up an ancient plywood case for nothing, pulled the dead lining out and decided to "do this right." I found some velveteen fabric at the fabric store and some half inch foam rubber and set to work. The interior was pretty straightforward - foam, glue, staple and so forth.

The exterior was another matter. For some reason I had got it into my head that the outside needed cushioning as well. I was probably a Sophomore and that might explain it. But by the time I learned to sew a seam around the entire thing, I regretted even thinking about redoing the exterior, and certainly not in La Z Boy material.

it ended up looking spectacular, by the way. Weighs a ton. The velveteen is bright red with diagonal thingies in the pattern. When I die, I expect to be dismembered and buried in it.

As far as your project, Zinzzer is a good sealer but it may offgas for a while, with unknown effects to a finish. I had a new case once that tarnished the gold plated tuning machine buttons on my jazzbox. Offgassing is oddball stuff. So as an alternative, consider dumping a bottle of titebond into a bucket and diluting it about 2:1 with lukewarm water, mixing well, and then painting the whole inside with a cheap foam brush. Lay it right on and start it drying with a hair dryer so you can slather on some more of the goop until you run out. Then go ahead and do it up with some velvet and lots of foam rubber.

Use a glue gun as if your life depended on it, and a commercial electric or pneumatic staple gun is handy. Work plenty of neck support into the case while you're at it, so the area by the first and second fret has some support in case the thing is dropped. The whole approach should become more or less intuitive as you go.

As far as the exterior, I can heartily recommend fiberglass resin, a cheap paint brush and black Rustoleum from a rattle can. It'll take only an afternoon and you'll get stoned at the same time. win / win.

[acme97]

Hilarious. And I understand exactly what you are saying. Since I had a mold issue, after I bleach-kill the mold inside the shell, I am going to go with whatever mold-inhibitor I feel like when I get to the store (either Zinnzer shellac or the mold-inhibiting latex). And there's no harm in making the additional support brace for the neck, I can just copy how TKL installs them.

It's the lining material I'm still on about...I can find a pretty much exact match for the light blue original to the case but it will be man-made. Some people are saying don't use synthetic faux fur because the dye could transfer or worse...then the alternative is cotton-based velour.

But folks these vintage cases have been around for years and years with this same crazy color fur inside and guitars in there surviving unharmed by the lining itself, but rather just aging. Never seen a Guild guitar tuned blue from the case lining, never seen an old one with fur imprint on the finish. Should I be that worried about it? These old Guild cases, new Gibson cases, every 40 dollar generic hardshell case now. That has got to be synthetic fiber, right?

The other alternative is to line it with period correct burgundy cloth and I'm sure I can find that in cotton or whatever. It's just harder to use because you can't hide any mistakes like you can with faux fur as you do the sides.

BTW I found a supplier of mold-inhibiting foam. I'll get you a link for anyone who has to reline a case that had a mold problem.

[CaffeinatedOne]

I'm sure it's synthetic stuff. I've even seen sprayed flocking in cases (ugh). I'm not aware of any issues involving the actual fabric - fake fur or whatever. I do have some concerns about adhesives that may be used in laying it down. The offgassing case I mentioned was new, with a new guitar from Washburn. I've had the thing now for some years and still I get a nasty whiff when I open the case. I expect they used a substitute adhesive or something, but it really raised hell on the hardware. I was able to polish it off so it was deposited on top of the finish; not corrosion. Seems to have died down since then.

The titebond idea is simply a convenient form of glue sizing, similar to use in wallpapering to seal the surface of the wall before applying adhesive. It happens to be a glue, but that's incidental. Its function is to form an impervious, inert layer. Once its dry it will accept almost any adhesive. Some builders use a dilute liquid hide glue sizing to seal the wood before installing a rosette or purfling in an instrument. It's wonderful stuff - prevents dye or adhesive bleed, is easy to clean up and leaves no trace if properly removed.

[Silly Moustache]

Yup, I guess it might have been about 1968-70 that I got a Guild D-40 in an original case with a pressed aluminium Guild badge on it. The guitar had to go but the case stayed with me - through many Martins.

When I had to stop playing for ten years ('83-'93) though illness the case protected my D35 in the attic - ten hot summers and cold winters.

Both seemed fine. The Martins have long gone but the case stayed in the attic, until about this time last year when I observed a mold starting on the outside.

I knew of a guy who does customised car seats and such, and asked him if he would redo it inside and out. I had a hard time buying a suitable exterior covering and mindful of possible fumes damage spent a LOT of money on pure cotton lining.

He has had it for over a year now and although the outside is finished - things have slowed down somewhat. I'll ring him soon and chase him up.

Another relevant question - I typically travel with two or three guitar cases. Geib style - like them - won't change ... No problems with my Honda Accord Estate but my new car - a Honda CRV - has a terrible boot (trunk) design with lots of sharp edges and I've noticed that the ends of my cases are sustaining damage. Anybody got any tips about repairing chips, tears, or even re-inforcement ?

[acme97]

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedOne

I'm sure it's synthetic stuff. I've even seen sprayed flocking in cases (ugh). I'm not aware of any issues involving the actual fabric - fake fur or whatever. I do have some concerns about adhesives that may be used in laying it down. The offgassing case I mentioned was new, with a new guitar from Washburn. I've had the thing now for some years and still I get a nasty whiff when I open the case. I expect they used a substitute adhesive or something, but it really raised hell on the hardware. I was able to polish it off so it was deposited on top of the finish; not corrosion. Seems to have died down since then.

The titebond idea is simply a convenient form of glue sizing, similar to use in wallpapering to seal the surface of the wall before applying adhesive. It happens to be a glue, but that's incidental. Its function is to form an impervious, inert layer. Once its dry it will accept almost any adhesive. Some builders use a dilute liquid hide glue sizing to seal the wood before installing a rosette or purfling in an instrument. It's wonderful stuff - prevents dye or adhesive bleed, is easy to clean up and leaves no trace if properly removed.

Thanks for answering those points. Much appreciated. The actual mold itself (which is on the bottom interior AND I found exterior under the tolex...duh, big surprise) has been more stubborn issue than anticipated. Still smells a bit after the first cleaning and dry-out. But that's another thread, or another forum!

[acme97]

Well...I am still at this project. It's time to reline the shell of this guitar case. What I would like to know is where anyone thinks TKL or other hard case manufacturers get their SHORT NAP faux fur lining. Do they all get it from one or a couple suppliers?

I can get costume faux fur, velvet, crushed velvet, and everything in between that looks like it belongs in a guitar case and also the stuff that doesn't, but is correct for making a muppet. Every sample of faux fur I ordered has a nap that is too long. I've looked all over and at many of the online fabric outlets...nothing that has a nap that short. One-inch nap looks too "furry" for a guitar case interior if you're going the fur route. Quarter or half-inch nap at the longest seems right, but really it's the quarter-inch that you see the most. IMO.

I'm also convinced all the stuff in these cases in synthetic fabric, unless someone can point out otherwise. Some people suggested use only natural fabrics. But the ubiquitous faux fur is not a natural fabric.

I'm also now convinced that if you smell mold in a case you can try the tons of things posted to remedy it but...likely it's gotten into the wood and that is an ex-guitar case. Unless you are like me and, out of spite, gut it, kill the mold, seal the wood, and reline the case. Trust me...when I pulled the lining out of this '70s Guild case I found the invisible source at the base of the shell. And in the cardboard and such of the lining down there (never visible until you pulled it all out). No baking soda, vinegar, vanilla, activated charcoal, or direct sun (I did that for a week) was going to rectify that. But borax and vinegar on bare wood did. And the bleach recipe on one spot that was stubborn (I used that later as a last resort).

I will also say that an "ozone" treatment at a good car detailing shop did in fact work for another similar case I am also working on. But that was "old house" smell and not the stronger sweet (or sour) smell of mold. Who knew one could tell a difference. I think.

So if anyone knows where these case makers really get their faux fur lining I'd love to know. They all seem to have it. And it's not an upholstery shop hopefully...which gave me a super close match for about 100 clams a yard (and you need two or three yards depending).

And as a last resort I found great-looking crushed velvet that is super close to what I see in the higher model TKL cases.

Thanks folks. I've taken pictures all along the way, maybe I'll put my own tutorial together if it all seems to come out right.

[Sperry]

I've gone the vinegar route. A pan of white vinegar in a sealed case for a few days. Open, dump, air. Repeat as necessary. Sometimes works.

Hugh's mandolin case is beyond help. On a warm humid day the smell of ten thousand cigarettes and birthing felines wafts unabated.

[Rudy4]

Acme,
I know it's difficult to cut your losses, but the best thing you could do is place as much distance between your case project and your home, shop, family, pets, or any other instruments you might own.

There are a LOT of individual types of mold and mildew and all it takes is a few displaced spores to infiltrate your carpets, instrument cases, etc. Sometimes they'll lie dormant for years, but eventually the life cycle can reassert itself.

It's hard to pay good money for something and then relegate it to the county dump, but sometimes it's the best call.

[acme97]

Perhaps I'm not being clear...lots of times I write too much for what I'm asking.

I did indeed eliminate the mold in the shell of the case. I stripped everything out. The bare wood has been sanded, given an anti-mold treatment, left out in the sun for several dry days, and then sealed with a Zinnzer anti-mold clear sealer. Even the outside bottom of the shell. There is no smell left, no mold. I did the entire project outside.

I would just like to find that particular type of fabric if I could to re-line the case with. It's just something I want to do once to say I did it. I went far beyond what someone would usually do, and throw the case out.

But thanks for the comments. Yes, normally I would part with a moldy case, I've only come across one or two in 30+ years (and 30+ hard shell cases). But I thought what the hell, it's summer and I'm off.

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by acme97

I would just like to find that particular type of fabric if I could to re-line the case with.. . .

Lots of those old Guild cases were made by Ess and Ess, the best case maker after Lifton died. I bought a new one for my D-28 just before the end of their business. They did use different materials from time to time, of course.

For a sympathetic ear, contact Steve Kirtley, our vintage case history friend:

http://www.stevekirtley.org/vintagecases.htm

Another possible resource might be Collings - they're getting into vintage style case manufacture.

Deluxe cases from the 1920s had all natural fabrics, including real silk plush for the best ones. Dress maker" silk velvet is available, and can make for a really elegant case lining. Here's a listing from eBay - worth a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GREEN-PURPLE...YAAOxy3cJTfnSY

[acme97]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

Lots of those old Guild cases were made by Ess and Ess, the best case maker after Lifton died. I bought a new one for my D-28 just before the end of their business. They did use different materials from time to time, of course.

For a sympathetic ear, contact Steve Kirtley, our vintage case history friend:

http://www.stevekirtley.org/vintagecases.htm

Another possible resource might be Collings - they're getting into vintage style case manufacture.

Deluxe cases from the 1920s had all natural fabrics, including real silk plush for the best ones. Dress maker" silk velvet is available, and can make for a really elegant case lining. Here's a listing from eBay - worth a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GREEN-PURPLE...YAAOxy3cJTfnSY

Sir, thank you. That was EXACTLY the advice I was looking for. I really appreciate it!

[Darryl Hattenha]

The only thing I can help you with is tape for the exterior. Use gaffer's tape. They use this stuff to tape instrument cords to the floor of the stage at concerts. You can get it cheap on ebay.