Newbie question

[Geedub]

Hello Everyone,

I'm getting started in home recording and am using Reaper to record some of my original songs. For now it's just acoustic guitar and vocals on a single track but I plan to move into layered recording at some point.

I'm curious about where I should make these recordings for reasonably good sound. I don't have a lot of flexibility in regard to converting a room, etc into a recording studio.

Is it better to record in a living room/dining room with carpet and plaster walls? My small bathroom with linoleum floor and fiberglass tub?
I also have access to my church and could record in the fellowship hall (lot's of tile, stone and wood).

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Geedub

…Is it better to record in a living room/dining room with carpet and plaster walls? My small bathroom with linoleum floor and fiberglass tub?
…I also have access to my church and could record in the fellowship hall (lot's of tile, stone and wood).

Hi G-dub…
How large is the church fellowship hall? (dimensions) How high is the ceiling?

The advantage of large spaces is being able to back the mics away further because the room enhances the sound as you record it (natural reverb and delay). Sometimes it's not a good thing. Whatever room you experiment with, start in the middle of the room well away from walls.

Whatever room you record in, there are factors such as hard walls/floors, windows, rugs, hardwood floors etc. Unless you are going for a dramatic delay the bathroom probably is not it.

Please keep us posted on the experiments you conduct.

[MikeBmusic]

The biggest problem in recording in an average-sized untreated room is flutter echo. Clap your hands loudly in the room, do you hear a quick echo? That's flutter echo, and when playing music/singing in such a room, the recorded sound can get ugly. Close-miking is better to use in this situation. A large room with pleasant natural reverb is better than a small room with flutter echo.

[Geedub]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

The biggest problem in recording in an average-sized untreated room is flutter echo. Clap your hands loudly in the room, do you hear a quick echo? That's flutter echo, and when playing music/singing in such a room, the recorded sound can get ugly. Close-miking is better to use in this situation. A large room with pleasant natural reverb is better than a small room with flutter echo.

I discovered another problem with recording at home (sort-of). His name is Buster (2 year old Brittany). I decided to try the loud hand clap to see if I could detect it and sure enough, he came sprinting around the corner.

[Geedub]

Okay, well maybe "feedback" is not the right word in this context. I'm new enough at recording that I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be listening for. Any comments or suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

I made this recording yesterday in my small (12x18), carpeted living/dining room.

Vocal Mike: Behringer super cardioid CM 1800x

Guitar: Taylor 414ce ltd.

Both plugged into an M-Track interface set to mono and connected via USB to my Mac notebook running Reaper.

I recorded both tracks simultaneously running vocals into the left track and guitar into the right track. I uploaded two versions of the recording but the only difference is that on the first one I used the "JS Guitar/amp Model Dumble Overdrive Special Tweed - Tweed Deluxe" plug-in and version 1.2 is with no plug-in. While I'm mostly interested in feedback on the overall quality of the recording (versus the differences in the versions) any feedback you have to offer is welcome.

The link takes you to version 1.2

https://soundcloud.com/greg-wasberg/kryptonite-12

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Geedub

Okay, well maybe "feedback" is not the right word in this context. I'm new enough at recording that I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be listening for. Any comments or suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

I made this recording yesterday in my small (12x18), carpeted living/dining room.

Vocal Mike: Behringer super cardioid CM 1800x

Guitar: Taylor 414ce ltd.

Both plugged into an M-Track interface set to mono and connected via USB to my Mac notebook running Reaper.

I recorded both tracks simultaneously running vocals into the left track and guitar into the right track. I uploaded two versions of the recording but the only difference is that on the first one I used the "JS Guitar/amp Model Dumble Overdrive Special Tweed - Tweed Deluxe" plug-in and version 1.2 is with no plug-in. While I'm mostly interested in feedback on the overall quality of the recording (versus the differences in the versions) any feedback you have to offer is welcome.

The link takes you to version 1.2

https://soundcloud.com/greg-wasberg/kryptonite-12

No matter how many years you've been at this recording thing, in the end your ears will continue to play tricks and will continue to fool you (to a greater of lesser degree as you progress). At this stage of your journey it's particularly difficult as you're just now building a foundation of "this worked and this didn't" which ultimately guides you on your sonic choices in the future.

I never attempt an acoustic guitar project without some solid frame of outside reference. Right now I'm enamored by the Punch Brothers CD Antifogmatic. It's a wonderfully up close, close, close recording with very little eq and almost zero time based effects. That's just the sound I gravitate towards these days so it's a natural choice. So recently and before I embark on a new project I'll load the tune "This is the Song" (and the song and or artist choice varies depending on what I shooting for) into the Pro Tools session and throughout the course of the project listen to where my deep rooted mixing habit might have lead me (and the project) astray from that reference recording. I'm of course mindful that I don't have that kinda of recording space (room) so I'm not trying to nail the sound 100% (as that's never gonna happen) but it sure does lend a stark reminder of where I want to be sonically as opposed to where I am at any given moment. In the end it forces me to evaluate where I tend to go sonically if left solely to my own devices. Sometimes it's jaw dropping how far (particularly eq wise) I get off course.

Just my 2 cents of course..

[Legolas1971]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

So recently and before I embark on a new project I'll load the tune "This is the Song" (and the song and or artist choice varies depending on what I shooting for) into the Pro Tools session and throughout the course of the project listen to where my deep rooted mixing habit might have lead me (and the project) astray from that reference recording. I'm of course mindful that I don't have that kinda of recording space (room) so I'm not trying to nail the sound 100% (as that's never gonna happen) but it sure does lend a stark reminder of where I want to be sonically as opposed to where I am at any given moment. In the end it forces me to evaluate where I tend to go sonically if left solely to my own devices. Sometimes it's jaw dropping how far (particularly eq wise) I get off course.

Just my 2 cents of course..

That is a great idea! I'm gonna do this in Pro tools too. Thanks Joseph!

[Geedub]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

No matter how many years you've been at this recording thing, in the end your ears will continue to play tricks and will continue to fool you (to a greater of lesser degree as you progress). At this stage of your journey it's particularly difficult as you're just now building a foundation of "this worked and this didn't" which ultimately guides you on your sonic choices in the future.

I never attempt an acoustic guitar project without some solid frame of outside reference. Right now I'm enamored by the Punch Brothers CD Antifogmatic. It's a wonderfully up close, close, close recording with very little eq and almost zero time based effects. That's just the sound I gravitate towards these days so it's a natural choice. So recently and before I embark on a new project I'll load the tune "This is the Song" (and the song and or artist choice varies depending on what I shooting for) into the Pro Tools session and throughout the course of the project listen to where my deep rooted mixing habit might have lead me (and the project) astray from that reference recording. I'm of course mindful that I don't have that kinda of recording space (room) so I'm not trying to nail the sound 100% (as that's never gonna happen) but it sure does lend a stark reminder of where I want to be sonically as opposed to where I am at any given moment. In the end it forces me to evaluate where I tend to go sonically if left solely to my own devices. Sometimes it's jaw dropping how far (particularly eq wise) I get off course.

Just my 2 cents of course..

Thanks Joseph, it's kind of funny but there have been a few times where I've been listening to a piece of music and thought "Thats the sound I'm looking for" (or close to it anyway) but it hadn't yet taken the step of using it more directly as a point of reference.

[whitecloud]

On this tune I would add another guitar track(double tracked) since you recorded two separate(vox and gtr.) It would not take much effort. Pan to taste

[KevWind]

Yes what Joseph said; A reference "goal" to shoot for, loaded as an additional stereo track right in the session is a very valuable tool.

In the critical listening class I took at Berklee that is all we did we purchased 10 different reference CD's and started a process of learning to analyzing down into some fairly extensive detail.

One quick layman's tool for room and possible flutter or (standing wave) issues is stand where you are going record and clap your hands hard. Depending on the room you may be able to hear a funny harsh'ish type sustain. For a quick reference as to what to listen for, go into for example a tiled bathroom and clap and listen for the ringing type sustain. If you get something like that in your recording locatin you may like the result but if your recording still seems flat or lackluster compared to what you hear playing live in the room, You want to get or build some portable absorption panels or Gobo as the are sometimes called

[Geedub]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

On this tune I would add another guitar track(double tracked) since you recorded two separate(vox and gtr.) It would not take much effort. Pan to taste

More "newbie-ness"…

Thanks for the suggestion; just to clarify, I'm assuming that adding another guitar track (double tracking) means to add a third guitar track by making another recording of me playing along with the first two tracks versus some action I would take within Reaper, correct?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Geedub

More "newbie-ness"…

Thanks for the suggestion; just to clarify, I'm assuming that adding another guitar track (double tracking) means to add a third guitar track by making another recording of me playing along with the first two tracks versus some action I would take within Reaper, correct?

First to clarify by saying "add a third guitar track" you do actually mean a third track to the session over all ? 2 guitar and 1 vocal yes?

If so then the actually yes to both it could be done either way. You could track an additional guitar track trying to match the original( called double tracking) or you could within Reaper simply duplicate the original track( there should be an option to do this) and in either case then pan the two git tracks out of dead center to give the vocal more room.

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by Geedub

More "newbie-ness"…

Thanks for the suggestion; just to clarify, I'm assuming that adding another guitar track (double tracking) means to add a third guitar track by making another recording of me playing along with the first two tracks versus some action I would take within Reaper, correct?

double tracking the guitar would be 2 gtr. tracks recorded on separate occasions. Usually they are panned hard left and right. It might help with this recording, but at the very least fun practice

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by KevWind

or you could within Reaper simply duplicate the original track( there should be an option to do this) and in either case then pan the two git tracks out of dead center to give the vocal more room.

Yes, in Reaper it is very easy to duplicate a track, but this serves no purpose unless you put a very small time delay on one (or some other processing), you just have the same thing in 2 places. Panning one left and the other and equal amount right is the same as panning the original track in the center and doubling the volume.

[Paully]

I'd do vocals in the bathroom. There's gotta be a reason we all sound great in the shower.
(tounge halfway in cheek)