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  #1  
Old 04-29-2005, 10:24 AM
Andromeda Andromeda is offline
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Smile Laminate vs. Solid Wood

Before I ever owned a high end guitar, I never cared what the tonewood was, or if it was solid or laminate. Now, as I am becoming knowledgeable about the various tonewoods, there seems to be the attitude that solid wood back and sides are superior to a laminate.

But I'm questioning that theory. My friend owns a Seagull with a cedar top and laminate wild cherry back and sides. In tone and volume that relatively inexpensive guitar rivals my expensive Guild JF55 jumbo in both tone and volume.

Any thoughts?
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:29 AM
Fngrstyl Fngrstyl is offline
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As long as the Top is solid, most guitars do not sound bad.. But Laminate wood can not resonate like solid wood.. That's all there is to it.
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:01 PM
musicologydoc musicologydoc is offline
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There are differing opinions on this. The top is clearly the most important piece of wood in the instrument as far as the production of sound, while back and sides affect its coloration. Some builders feel, however, that the most important role of the back and sides is structural, and that the strength of laminates is actually advantageous in this respect. Some classical builders use laminates for this reason, even in high-end guitars. There aren't many such high-end examples among steel-strings, though in the less-expensive range Martin and other companies have achieved some astonishing results with laminated back & sides.

OTOH, many believe that solid wood resonates in a way that even the best laminates simply cannot. I tend to agree, though I wonder how much of this is psychological.
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:26 PM
KMHaynes KMHaynes is offline
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Many solid top, laminate back and side guitars can be quite loud, but the tone is usually pretty one-dimensional -- no resonance, character, soul. Solid wood guitars generally produce more sophisticated tones and resonances.

Also, the world is full of people who can't hear the difference, and therefore aren't concerned with the difference. Nothing wrong with that, but once your brain and ears click into that tonal difference, there's no going back to laminates -- unless you just need a good beater for camping, the beach or heavy gigging with several other instruments where the acoustic is just part of the mix.
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:30 PM
Fredmando Fredmando is offline
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Ok, can I throw a "Wild Card" in on this one?
I didn't notice the difference when I played a Yairi DY-62C last year and I wanted to buy it. I checked with the company in St. Louis and they told me that some pros actually prefer laminated or layered bodies because they don't cause feedback as much on stage.
Has anyone else heard this?
I own a Norman and it has a cherry laminated body. I love it.
--Fred
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:30 PM
samchar samchar is offline
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Seagull and Simon & Patrick guitars are truly exceptional in the laminate space. I'd put my Simon & Patrick 12 string up against anything.

Generally, the solids are gonna win out on tone. But, I believe firmly that laminates, particularly the Seagull/S&P guitars, have their place in any acoustic arsenal.....if for no other reason that they can still sound VERY GOOD and be as seemingly durable as iron. The ultimate "beater" guitar. Priced and durable like a beater, but doesn't sound like one.
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:31 PM
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I believe Seagull uses a special method for thier laminates. Having owned a seagull, i think that a lot of the other laminates dont come close to the sound Seagull can give imo. I dont think laminates are necessarily bad though... they can stand a lot more abuse and are great as traveling guitars, etc...

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Old 04-29-2005, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredmando
pros actually prefer laminated or layered bodies because they don't cause feedback as much on stage.
--Fred
Which further provides an example that laminates do not resonate like solid woods.
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:23 PM
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I wonder if it makes more difference from in back of the guitar (player's perspective ) than in front ( audience perspective ) with a laminated back? It has seemed so to me, but my experience is limited.
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:50 PM
Andromeda Andromeda is offline
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I do think I agree that the solid wood guitar does have more of a resonance factor. Even though my friend's Seagull sounds warm, there is an aded "something more" my high end Guild has, that I couldn't put my finger on. But now I do see that what his lacks is resonance.
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:59 PM
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My son's S&P has a solid back......guess which part of the guitar is the toughest to keep humidified? It has laminated sides, though--makes since since the sides don't vibrate significantly regardless of material and thus don't contribute to the tone profile, and laminated sides are stronger and can carry a greater load and withstand more severe humidity fluctuations without failing.
I have noticed that the quality of the solid top is a lot more crucial to the character of tone in an otherwise laminated guitar than in an all-solid-wood one, since a laminated back doesn't vibrate in such a way as to convey the tonal characteristics of its wood; whereas the fact that a solid back does vibrate more freely means that more of the back wood's tonal character will come through.
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:01 PM
albertshaw albertshaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredmando
Ok, can I throw a "Wild Card" in on this one?
I didn't notice the difference when I played a Yairi DY-62C last year and I wanted to buy it. I checked with the company in St. Louis and they told me that some pros actually prefer laminated or layered bodies because they don't cause feedback as much on stage.
Has anyone else heard this?
I own a Norman and it has a cherry laminated body. I love it.
--Fred
Pros have different considerations - and not necesarily for the best sound. The equipment has to survive the tour, be tough, and sound reasonably good in all situations.

Also, the pros are not necessarily pro guitarist. They are professional performers who happen to use a guitar on stage. They have a whole package - stage presences, dress, voice, business sense and guitar is just a little part of it. And that is why many (but not all) good musicians don't make money - they only know how to play an instrument. Where some teenager who can barely play - but with a good package - is a rock star.

If you are an amatuer - you can go for the sound.

By the way, Taylor necks are bolted to a piece of plywood which is part of the body. People don't seem to mind - but it bothers me somewhat.

Last edited by albertshaw; 04-29-2005 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:30 PM
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I think there are different types of laminated materials that are used to construct instruments. Certainly there are laminates that are fairly inexpensive that are used to build budget guitars. Usually the cheaper laminates do not produce a very good acoustic sound although every now and then you come across a nice sounding instrument.

Some high end instrument makers are using very specialized laminates to produce very nice sounding instruments such as archtop guitars and contra basses. Last year I placed an order for a custom built archtop that will be constructed with laminated maple top and bottom (back) plates. The sides will be solid wood but the plates are laminated and to a very exact spec, in terms of thickness, weight and quality of woods.

One of the advantages of these high end, laminated instruments is that they produce a very nice, amplified sound that resists feedback better than most solid wood counterparts. Acoustically, the ones I have heard are not as loud or rich sounding as solid wood guitars, but amplified the sound absolutely gorgeous.

Guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:35 PM
Phantoj Phantoj is offline
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I think the laminates aren't as rumbly on your tumbly, and that's enough for me to prefer solid (mahogany).
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Old 04-29-2005, 03:45 PM
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I don't think we should generalize and lump it into "solid" or "laminate" camps. I've played some awful solids and some great laminates. My Martin DM (laminated back & sides) was a stellar guitar... I had to move up to a D-18V to better it. The Taylor 110 is also a stellar laminate.

Asian-made laminated guitars may be a different story, although there are certainly some good ones out there, as well.

I'm thinking much of the big solid/ laminate debate is gear snobbery.
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