PSA: Reverb is an awesome place to find guitars! All the same, some tips...

[AMW]

Hey all,

Been meaning to start this thread for a while. As a high-end shop that does the majority of our business online, we were scouted pretty early on by Reverb.com, went ahead and gave it a try, and it has actually been a great relationship! We have been with them since their beginning (4 years or so, now?) and month by month, we are finding a larger audience and seeing a lot of instruments sold through their platform. The fees are much more agreeable than Ebay (who, I'm told, has lowered instrument fees in reaction to Reverb's success) but more importantly, their customer service is top notch and their interface is very agreeable. So agreeable, in fact, that moving forward we'll be using their back end for our own website. This gives us financing and payment processing options that weren't available in the past, and that will please our customers... but I digress.

This thread is about things to think about when you're in the wide world of Reverb. Comments and tips are very much appreciated, or just share your own experiences. The following is from the perspective of a high $ Reverb "preferred seller" that very much enjoys having the platform available.

This will be a little bit "stream of consciousness" for me, but hopefully not too scattered!

1. Reverb isn't a store. Sure, they are very much associated with Chicago Music Exchange (same owner) but Reverb itself is a website that facilitates the buying and selling of musical instruments and related items, from both individuals and resellers. Like Ebay, Reverb is "where you saw it" not "where it is". You didn't buy an instrument from Reverb, you bought the instrument from someone who was using Reverb. Reverb got their deserved cut of the proceeds.

2. So since Reverb isn't a store, that means that someone, somewhere, is in possession of this instrument that you're looking at. They might be an individual, or like us, they might be a long established dealer. If you haven't ever sold anything on Reverb, their default is to encourage individual users to set themselves up as a "shop" and they recommend calling yourself something like "Billy's Gear Bizarre" or "Jan's Instrument Emporium". On the one hand, this levels the playing field, in that individual sellers' listings are standing side by side with offerings from some of the best brick and mortar stores in the world... but buyers should take a few moments to do their due diligence. This is very important! Take a wider view and see what else this vendor is selling, and what else they've sold, look at their feedback. Use the Google-machine to find out if you're conversing with a single person in their garage, or an actual dealer with a store front. This will help establish certain expectations, including price. You should absolutely expect a slightly higher price from a dealer, not just because of their overhead, but because of the confidence that is instilled by dealing with a professional. This is someone you can talk to long after your transaction is completed and you're out of your return window.

As a marketplace, Reverb does their part in trying to moderate disputes, process payments, etc... but my next few points are very much informed by what I've just established.

3. Reverb is not responsible for prices in their listings, does not regulate or enforce MAP, but the manufacturers (and Reverb staff) are watching. There have been a million threads on AGF and elsewhere about list price, MAP, and what you can get for a price if you pick up the phone and call. To manufacturers, any price listed on Reverb counts as an advertised price. So on new inventory, that means that if a dealer lists something below MAP on Reverb, they could be (and probably are) violating an agreement with a manufacturer. For pretty much every line that my shop carries, I can't have "Make Offer" as an option in a Reverb listing, because this violates MAP.

This next part is very, very important: to most manufacturers, prices quoted in emails and instant messages (like the very convenient system that Reverb makes available) count as advertising. That means that if, say, Collings says I can only advertise a guitar for 10% off of list, and I tell you in an IM that I'll sell it to you new with warranty for 20% off of list, then Collings is within their rights to pull my dealership. What happens with some regularity is that a customer sends a message through Reverb, saying "X dealer has the same guitar and says that they'll sell it me for Y". So in addition to anonymously pitting hard-working dealers against each other (which *might* just be bad form? I dunno) you are also trying to get multiple dealers to violate their manufacturer agreements, in writing. All of this is to say, try to be thoughtful when discussing price through Reverb. Would you get a better price if you called directly and took the deal off Reverb? Well, yeah, probably! More on that below....

4. Don't try to use Reverb to get off-Reverb deals. So Reverb gives us this great instant messaging system to discuss the finer points of the instruments that we're, you know, discussing. It is a user violation to use Reverb to try to arrange off-Reverb deals. Pretty easy to understand, right? Reverb has provided this huge marketplace, with a great interface, at no small cost, so that we can all find each other and make these deals... but of course, some peoples' first instinct is to try to find a workaround to get a better price, but how the heck does it look to Reverb (again, they're watching) when you send an instant message saying "What's the price if we do this off Reverb?" This goes back to points 1 and 2. Do a bit of research, and figure out if the instrument you seek is actually residing in a real store somewhere. If it does, call. Discuss price. Discuss the finer points of the instrument, at length. It's our job to tell you all we know about the instrument, and help you decide if it's really what you're looking for... but if you try to subvert Reverb, in Reverb, you risk losing your account and the account of whoever you're dealing with. We're very hardline on this point.

5. Reverb does not facilitate trades. Why would they? There's no commission on a trade. Wanna trade? Call or email. Not through Reverb. Especially when you're talking to a dealer. Again, this counts as trying to make a non-Reverb deal by using Reverb's services. Bad form, and against their terms.

I'll stop there, because this is getting kinda long. Most of what I've said is laid out in Reverb's terms of service, but of course none of us read those things! But as a dealer who does an appreciable amount of business through their website, I feel like we can help people to get a better idea of how it all works, and then everyone will have a better experience. It's wonderful that we have this portal to hundreds and thousands of amazing instruments, it has really changed the landscape, as far as we're concerned.

Comments greatly encouraged.

[Glennwillow]

Wow, this is great information! Thanks so much for laying this out!

Well done!

- Glenn

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by AMW

Hey all,

2. So since Reverb isn't a store, that means that someone, somewhere, is in possession of this instrument that you're looking at. They might be an individual, or like us, they might be a long established dealer. If you haven't ever sold anything on Reverb, their default is to encourage individual users to set themselves up as a "shop" and they recommend calling yourself something like "Billy's Gear Bizarre" or "Jan's Instrument Emporium".



Comments greatly encouraged.

That part seems pretty iffy. I just have a whole different set of expectations from a store than I do from an individual - packing & shipping, expertise in describing the instrument, return policy, etc etc etc. I don't see any upside for either party in the seller pretending to be something they're not.

And, thank you for the info!

Originally Posted by frankmcr

That part seems pretty iffy. I just have a whole different set of expectations from a store than I do from an individual - packing & shipping, expertise in describing the instrument, return policy, etc etc etc. I don't see any upside for either party in the seller pretending to be something they're not.

I agree with this, but you get used to it quickly and can tell the difference between types of sellers. It's not really a big deal. I appreciate Reverb. Ebay needs some serious competition.

[Gmountain]

I love using Reverb. I can find pretty much anything I'm interested in. So far, never a bad experience.

I'll pretty much filter by make an offer. Make a reasonable offer, and it is usually accepted.

Honestly, if something is MAP, I'd rather buy online from Musicians Friend and get the points and a discount as well.

Martins, though, is exclusively something I'll buy from Maury or Jon.

Sometimes on the make an offer filter you will see words like B-stock or used, and it turns out it's brand new. I suppose it's a way around MAP. Sometimes make an offer is used, but I've found most sellers to honestly describe their product, and everything I've purchased used has been better than described.

[Toby Walker]

Thanks so much for posting this information, which I'm sure many AGF members will benefit from.

[1Charlie]

I would add a few, specifically for the used market.

If you are going to post an ad for a guitar on Reverb, take lots of high-quality photos. I think Reverb allows you to post up to 25 photos. Show the guitar from every conceivable angle, and closeups of any dings, cracks or other damage. Show the saddle height and the action at the 12th fret, fret wear, and anything else that the buyer would need to fix. It is in your interest as the seller to fully disclose the condition of the instrument, and to price it accordingly. Including a video of the guitar being played also helps.

If you choose to list with a "Make an Offer" option, don't be offended when you get low-ball offers. What you are really saying with "Make an Offer" is that you are willing to consider taking less than your asking price.

Realistic pricing sells guitars faster. Reverb is clogged with listings for guitars that are way overpriced and sit there for 6 months, 8 months, a year, or more. If you truly want to sell your guitar, offer it at a fair price. It is a huge market, and other sellers will out-compete you for buyers if your price, relative to condition, is too high.

[Steadfastly]

I find their prices high compared to other online buying places. I do use Reverb for information on guitars, though. It is a good resource for that.

[rokdog49]

Great post, thank you!
To maximize your Reverb experience, do your homework and reach out to the seller. Start a dialogue, ask specific questions. I highly recommend contacting the seller via telephone, several times. Nothing is 100% but you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on if you treat things like you would in person and Reverb will help you if things go awry.
Their prices are not always above the market and if the seller allows you to "make an offer", it's your decision to buy or not based solely on what you want to pay.

[ChrisN]

The OP's post and disclosures are appreciated. I didn't know about the potential pitfalls of written communications. I've bought and sold on Reverb and have nothing but good things to say about my experiences with large and small buyers/sellers. The size of the "store" was, to me, irrelevant.

I have to quibble with the OP's agreement with Reverb's reluctance to facilitate trades - I'd happily pay Reverb's fee to work a trade that benefitted both parties. They have a complicated mechanism for trades involves each party "buying" and "selling" to each other so Reverb gets its fee, but that's too cumbersome, and it would be nice to have a place on Reverb where people listed trades they could offer for guitars they wanted. You might not want to go to the trouble listing/selling, but if you saw something you might want to try and the offeror wanted something that was languishing in your closet, Reverb might get a fee it otherwise would have missed.

I'd also like the option of listing "want to buy" so I could post exactly what I was looking for and potential sellers could come to ME to make offers that I could assess. Again, I'd be happy to pay Reverb's fee for this facilitation.

[AMW]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

That part seems pretty iffy. I just have a whole different set of expectations from a store than I do from an individual - packing & shipping, expertise in describing the instrument, return policy, etc etc etc. I don't see any upside for either party in the seller pretending to be something they're not.

Exactly my point. You should adjust expectations based on who you're buying from. Like I said, Reverb encourages individuals to call their "shop" something catchy (even if they're only selling a single item) and it can be confusing when browsing... but it's not hard to dig a little bit deeper.

Originally Posted by Steadfastly

I find their prices high compared to other online buying places. I do use Reverb for information on guitars, though. It is a good resource for that.

Reverb doesn't set the price, the seller does. If the price is higher than an identical item somewhere else, it's the seller's choice (for better or worse) to make it that way.

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Great post, thank you!
To maximize your Reverb experience, do your homework and reach out to the seller. Start a dialogue, ask specific questions. I highly recommend contacting the seller via telephone, several times. Nothing is 100% but you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on if you treat things like you would in person and Reverb will help you if things go awry.
Their prices are not always above the market and if the seller allows you to "make an offer", it's your decision to buy or not based solely on what you want to pay.

Yes to all of this!!

Originally Posted by ChrisN

I have to quibble with the OP's agreement with Reverb's reluctance to facilitate trades - I'd happily pay Reverb's fee to work a trade that benefitted both parties. They have a complicated mechanism for trades involves each party "buying" and "selling" to each other so Reverb gets its fee, but that's too cumbersome, and it would be nice to have a place on Reverb where people listed trades they could offer for guitars they wanted. You might not want to go to the trouble listing/selling, but if you saw something you might want to try and the offeror wanted something that was languishing in your closet, Reverb might get a fee it otherwise would have missed.

I'd also like the option of listing "want to buy" so I could post exactly what I was looking for and potential sellers could come to ME to make offers that I could assess. Again, I'd be happy to pay Reverb's fee for this facilitation.

I didn't express an agreement with Reverb not facilitating trades, I simply acknowledged that it is currently the case. Maybe someday they'll figure out a user-friendly way to make that happen, but that's not something that is available now. It's kind of like saying I wish Amazon.com gave me the option to trade a book that I have for that book that I want. Amazon would probably use language similar to the (I agree) clunky proposal that Reverb makes in their user terms of service: "Want to trade? Great! Sell your thing, and trade the money to them for their thing!" I've always thought that this was a weird way to express the idea that they don't facilitate trades.

It goes back to my point about due diligence and digging just a bit deeper. In many instances, you'll find that an individual seller has posted that same item on Craigslist, or on AGF or a similar forum... those are appropriate places to make contact to negotiate trades. In the case of a dealer like us, the most appropriate (and fastest) way to discuss a trade is to make a phone call.

Good points, everyone, and thanks for continuing the discussion!

[Blueser100]

It's got both good and bad points. Prices are often high, as has been mentioned. But it's a nice alternative to ebay. The listing process is very fast and easy, and sales are relatively stress-free. But you have to be patient especially if there is a glut of similar guitars. Also, Reverb's customer service is friendly and accessible, even by phone.

[Shadowfox]

I find the prices are usually about the same between Ebay and Reverb. I think the difference is Reverb is usually musicians and people who know guitars, so you don't have as big of a chance to find that "steal" like you would on Ebay.

I think Reverb is actually partially a store as they sell "reverb" branded things, and have a warehouse up in Chicago to store things.

The big thing is just be wary as people will try to scam you like on Ebay. Had a friend get offered more than he had put his guitar up for, but wanted to pay for it with a bank check. It was a interesting ordeal. Luckily he was able to stop it before he mailed the guitar. Just pay the few % on Reverb and have more peace of mind.

[tkoehler1]

I've had nothing but good experiences on Reverb, I've bought a couple of guitars and sold about 5.

One aspect I noticed is that it is very hard to sell nylon string/classical guitars here on AGF, but they sell pretty quickly on Reverb. Price is of course an issue, but if you price your classical fairly it will sell on Reverb - usually less than an month.

YMMV.

TK

[Looburst]

Great information and thank you, Steve!