J-45 discoloration of the fretboard 1 and 2 frets

[catfish]

I'm considering to buy a used 2012 Gibson J-45 Standard (local pickup in Moscow, Russia). Seller listed it as almost new very rarely played and in description he mentioned a few small dings. Photos looked very good --
https://www.avito.ru/moskva/muzykaln...ard_1481645943
Today he sent me a video in which there are really a lot of dings, but what worries me the most is the discoloration and, as he put it, 'change of texture' on the fretboard between the nut and the 1st fret, then between 1st and 2nd frets.
He says this issue with fretboard was already when he bought the guitar. He bought it new personally in Guitar Center in California in 2013. I doubt his words, my guess is that possibly he made it dirty or soiled and then tried to clean with some solvent. My speculation only.
I uploaded his video on my Youtube and would like to ask AGF members, if I apply for example lemon oil, would it restore this area to initial shape, or the damage is irreversible.
Here is the link, the part with fretboard starts at 0:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzt-AMsE1M
Thank you very much in advance!

[Wade Hampton]

Applying a dab of oil right in that spot should darken it some. I can't speak to the change in "texture," not being able to examine it in person. (You're a good guy, Catfish, but I can't afford to fly from Anchorage to Moscow to scope out the guitar for you!) But what I can see appears to be fingernail damage in those two spots.

When rosewood fingerboards are left grubby and played by someone with untrimmed fingernails, that sort of damage can occur. Ironically, constantly keeping the fingerboard oiled in the mistaken belief that it's good for the wood can also soften rosewood so that sort of digging in can take place.

My guess is that when he decided to sell the guitar the guy cleaned up the fretboard and tried to make the damage invisible, but only ended up emphasizing it instead.

If you do buy the guitar, when you eventually get the fingerboard refretted you can have the wood sanded down at the same time. While it isn't as visually attractive as it could be, for me it wouldn't be a deal-killer so long as the price takes the damage into account.

In your position I would use those fingerboard spots and the dings elsewhere on the guitar as negotiating points to try to get the price dropped a little further. But if it's at an already reasonable price, don't push too hard.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[guitar george]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

You're a good guy, Catfish, but I can't afford to fly from Anchorage to Moscow to scope out the guitar for you!

My guess is that when he decided to sell the guitar the guy cleaned up the fretboard and tried to make the damage invisible, but only ended up emphasizing it instead.

It's not that far. You should be able to see Moscow from Anchorage I would think. How about going by boat?

I agree that he probably started to clean the fretboard with some kind of cleaner and removed some of the finish.

[Pitar]

Looks like normal wear for someone who primarily plays in the 1st position. Untrimmed fingernails on a rosewood board will do that, and quickly if those are the frets normally played.

[AHill]

I'd run away. The dot on the "i" in the headstock is not the same color as the rest of the inlay. The pick guard doesn't look like it's installed correctly.

I'd be very wary of 2012 J-45s as they almost certainly have laminated fretboards (2012 is the year right after the raid when their rosewood and ebony was confiscated and they had limited supply). So if you have to have this sanded down for a re-fret, you may be making that rosewood rather thin. There has also been speculation about possible issues involving re-frets with laminated fretboards. Notice I say "speculation," which isn't the same as "corroboration." Still, given that particular year coupled with those sorts of issues, my advice is to not buy this guitar. J-45s are so numerous that surely you can find a better one at a good price.

[catfish]

Thank you very much everyone for your input!
The initial owner had fun with the guitar, sure, but the integrity is not his strong point, IMO.
I did not ask for detailed photos with 'small dings' or a video, assuming everything is fair -- the seller is initial owner, after all. But he sent me a video and insisted I watch it, probably anticipating my eventual shock upon seeing this 'almost new uplayed' J-45.
Pricewise, he is selling it for $1740, but I brought it down to $1500 by explaining to him the difference between pre-2016 and post-2016 acoustic Gibsons but before seeing the video.

After I watched video I sent him a message stating my worries and got a rather heated answer from him that he will not lower the price further. I said o.k., I will come in person, look and play then will make a decision.

I did not think about nails, thank you, Wade, and I did not know about laminated fretboards at Gibson in 2012, thank you, Frozen Rat.
I will probably go have a look and play, it is about one hour by subway from me.

[catfish]

Originally Posted by AHill

I'd run away. The dot on the "i" in the headstock is not the same color as the rest of the inlay. The pick guard doesn't look like it's installed correctly.

Thank you, I noticed that 'i' is white but when the camera zoom out it turns to the same color as the rest of inlay, possibly 'i' was sort of slant and reflect light differently.
Now I see that the pickguard is overlapping the white line around rosette, you are right.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by guitar george

It's not that far. You should be able to see Moscow from Anchorage I would think. How about going by boat?

Moscow is way over on the other side of the planet from us here in Alaska, but the times I've flown out to western Alaska, when it's been a clear day it's easy to see the Chukchi Peninsula across the Bering Straits in the Russian Far East.

The only place I've personally been over in Russia is in Magadan, one of the major cities in that same Russian Far East region. In 1992 I had the honor of playing music there in a series of concerts in Magadan Oblast.

Originally Posted by guitar george

I agree that he probably started to clean the fretboard with some kind of cleaner and removed some of the finish.

Well, there's no finish on the fingerboard itself, but if the fingerboard had been oiled some of that could have been removed by application of a solvent.


whm

[gfa]

Originally Posted by AHill

I'd run away. The dot on the "i" in the headstock is not the same color as the rest of the inlay. The pick guard doesn't look like it's installed correctly.

I've seen that on Gibsons at the shop.

[catfish]

UPDATE -- I have a happy ending in my quest to get an acoustic Gibson, yesterday I bought a J-45 Standard, but not the one I described in my initial post in this thread, but a different one, made in 2015 and in immaculate condition.

A couple of days ago I spotted it in the ads for sale, the price was good, the pictures and description excellent, so I needed to act fast which I did. We met at a parking lot, the seller brought the guitar by car as she is living in Moscow region, and I came by subway to the last faraway station. It was in the open air, quite noisy, the guitar had the factory installed strings which were dead, of course. I tuned the guitar but it was hardly possible to understand its tone. Anyway, I examined the guitar, everything was stock, almost no signs of use, just two very tiny dings like this on the soundboard --


The action was perfect, no cracks and no other visible defects at all. On the pickguard I noticed the protective plastic film --


There were two spare sets of strings in the case -


The young lady who was selling it said that the guitar was bought back in 2015 as a present to her father who eventually was not very much excited to play it, so it was in the closet for years.
When I came home and played the guitar with these dead strings, I was amazed by the lush complex tone it produced, so it was not a dud!

Overall, I am very happy that I got J-45. After abandoning the idea to buy this beaten up and scratched J-45 I wrote above, I was reluctantly thinking on settling on J-35 (there are three J-35 in the ads currently), since used J-45 are very rare in the ads and I cannot afford to buy it new, way too expensive. So the sudden luck of spotting a good one and buying it I see as a kind of Jungian synchronicity. I watch the guitar ads daily and I did not spot this J-45 which was listed on 25 April. I decided to look at the bottom of the ads and suddenly saw it. My guess is that the seller initially listed the guitar in Moscow region area and it was not visible to Moscow city, then she edited the ad making it visible to Moscow city, but the listing remained in the bottom, did not jump to the top (one has to pay for shooting it to the top). So, very few people saw it. This is the end of the story and my quest for a better guitar!

[Gomers]

Congratulations Catfish, think you made a wise choice. The J45 looks like a fabulous example, glad the action is ok for you, there's plenty of saddle left to play with. Starting to miss mine a bit now after seeing your photos

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Guest 1511

I'd be very wary of 2012 J-45s as they almost certainly have laminated fretboards (2012 is the year right after the raid when their rosewood and ebony was confiscated and they had limited supply). So if you have to have this sanded down for a re-fret, you may be making that rosewood rather thin. There has also been speculation about possible issues involving re-frets with laminated fretboards. Notice I say "speculation," which isn't the same as "corroboration." Still, given that particular year coupled with those sorts of issues, my advice is to not buy this guitar. J-45s are so numerous that surely you can find a better one at a good price.

I'm not a Gibson fan, but I didn't know that they used laminated fretboards for a while.

[jjrpilot]

Congrats from another first time J45 owner as well!

Sounds like you got a great deal! I bet it sounds great!

[catfish]

Thank you all for congratulations! Yes, I'm a first time Gibson guitar owner, and luckily it was the model I liked the best.

I played Gibson acoustics (J-15, J-35, J-45 and LG-2 American Eagle) for the first time in my life in October, 2017. Before that I was aiming only at Martin guitars.