#46
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The Captain makes great sense.
I guess what I'm reading into Steve's original starter is to wonder, why is there not more Brand name artist playing them based on the consistency, playability, and durability of Carbon fiber. As a commoner, I love the sound, lightweight, and as Capt, stated "it is my go-to playing out guitar", I play mine more than my wood ones. Probably because I can play longer without fatigue I experience with my D-28. I have a couple of Pro Acoustic picker friends that live in the Nashville area. I am having them both go to Artisan Guitars in the next few weeks(together) and play a couple of the CA's as I am interested in the Legacy. These friends have quite a stable of top quality Traditional Wooden Guitars and they have not yet played any of the current carbon fiber guitars. Can't wait to hear what they think.
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vANCe 1976 Martin D-28(original owner) 1992 Taylor 420(original owner) 2012 RainSong H DR 1000(original owner) 2011 Gretsch Anniversary Model(original owner) Mandolin- 1920's A-Style (unknown brand) Mandolin- Fender Mandostrat Banjo -2016 Gold Tone EBM-5+ Fender 2013- Strat Last edited by Finger Stylish; 12-10-2014 at 06:33 AM. |
#47
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My original question seemed to morph into a wood vs carbon argument? Didn't really want that but guess I may have phrased the question to invite that? It just seemed odd to me that I so rarely see carbon with "brand name artists". It's a numbers thing could be part of it but doubt that is all of it. A strong bias to wood instruments is likely for any number of reasons. One thing not raised is whether carbon guitars have the stage presence desired? Gray carbon is predominate in Rainsongs offerings for years.
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Steve 2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top 2005 McKnight SS Dred 2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby 2014 Godin Inuk 2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo 2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck 2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice 2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD 1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck 1987 Ovation Collectors 1993 Ovation Collectors 1967 J-45 Gibson 1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom |
#48
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I also think that an artist on the national stage can afford good wood guitars without concern of replacing them if damaged (unless they bring there prized guitar with them). They also might get great wood guitars free or get an artist discount.
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David Webber Round-Body Furch D32-LM MJ Franks Lagacy OM Rainsong H-WS1000N2T Stonebridge OM33-SR DB Stonebridge D22-SRA Tacoma Papoose Voyage Air VAD-2 1980 Fender Strat A few Partscaster Strats MIC 60s Classic Vib Strat |
#49
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So if one needs to get away from the idea that carbon fiber guitars are made from plastic because it offends, (even though the epoxy used in laying up the carbon mesh is a type of plastic) then we could say simply this: people prefer wood guitars over their alternatives because they prefer real versus artificial.
As for performing artists, one might say the image of a real guitar is one they prefer to project versus the one a carbon fiber guitar does. Otherwise, why are carbon fiber manufacturers making some of their guitars with tops that look like the real thing? I've yet to see a wooden guitar wanting to look like they are made from carbon fiber. Last edited by Pick guard; 12-10-2014 at 08:07 AM. |
#50
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#51
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"Real vs artificial"... not intending to be derogatory? Pretty transparent. Couldn't go with the "living" bit, so now you're trying "real vs artificial." Pick up a carbon fiber guitar - it is a real guitar. If anyone missed your derogatory intent previously, it should be quite apparent with this post. The only artificial thing I see here is your made-up argument. For a counter-point: when I was looking for a carbon fiber guitar, I went into a well-known chain guitar shop. The salesman I spoke with had heard of carbon fiber, but had never seen or played one. He said, "Let me show you this..." and took me to a black Martin HPL... "It LOOKS LIKE carbon fiber." Guitar manufacturers offer different finishes and styling to appeal to a broader market. Martin does it. Taylor does it. Even exclusive luthiers do it. I would be surprised if your guitar (assuming you actually have and play a guitar) doesn't have some finish treatment. The only idea "one needs to get away from" is the consideration that your opinion carries any weight for those who appreciate options. Why the childish tirade against carbon fiber? What do you expect to gain by the lame attempt to belittle another option? You have nothing to fear from carbon fiber. No one is trying to force it on you. You might learn from that. Jim On edit: Ted, it seems that great, free-thinking minds do think alike. Sure beats being a part of a "traditional-herd mentality." LOL |
#52
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Love it Jim.
Ok, I know few read through an entire thread so I will say it again, the very simple answer, in my opinion, to the original question is the low numbers of units produced, and product placement. When, not if the big boys start building CF guitars you will see them in the hands of major artists. And before the question is asked, again, the big boys have steered clear of CF not because there is no demand for what it has to offer, but because of the difficulty in building with it. A prime example of what might be a builder under estimating the difficulty of producing CF guitars is McPherson and their cool little Kevin Michael travel guitars. When introduced back in January the retail price was set at $2400, however by the time they started to trickle in late summer, the retail price was raised to $3200. And yes, I do sell CF guitars, more than any other dealer in fact, but I am also a top dealer for most of the wood guitar builders in my signature. I love wood guitars, in fact I love wood, anyone who has ever been to our custom Martins and Taylor section can see that, but I also love what CF guitars bring to the table, and they can be quite beautiful in their own way. Were I a gigging guitarist with money for only one good guitar, it would in fact be a Rainsong, it's as simple as that. Last edited by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales; 12-10-2014 at 09:15 AM. |
#53
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The "real vs artificial" seems appropriate, like comparing Christmas trees. |
#54
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I prefer to think of my Christmas tree as "composite", complete with fiber optic lighting! It is the modern option, better than the old wood ones we used to bring in the house. Besides the fact that my composite tree is more durable AND reusable, it doesn't shed needles all over the living room. No sap stains. I don't have to HYDRATE it (maybe this is more like guitars than I first considered??). No fuss, no muss. When you reach out to touch it... it is REAL. Really. It has mass. We gather around it - sing, laugh, and share great times. Those times would not be better or worse with a messy DEAD tree that has to be thrown away or shoved into a wood chipper after only a few weeks of use. I LOVE my composite tree! NOT attacking you or any others who enjoy a dead tree in their house. Contrary to what you might think, I don't want to put any of my nice wood guitars in a wood chipper. I have no agenda, beyond making music. I haven't tried to convince you or anyone else that they should sell off their wood guitars because carbon fiber is the only REAL option. That would be rather closed-minded. My mind is not closed. I don't feel I am a promoter of carbon fiber, but when people make lame, derogatory comments (as though their opinion is right, others are wrong), I sometimes feel the need to respond. Not always, mostly when what gets written is opinion, stated as fact. Or, just lame. Or, repetitive. Fortunately, I am retired, so I can take the time to stand up for "truth and justice." (I'll be right back, I have to get my cape. ) Enjoy your real dead tree. And your real dead wood guitar(s). In the spirit of this season, I really mean that. Real-ly. No disrespect meant - just calling it as I see it. ------------------- The above post is tongue-in-cheek. No trees have been harmed in the making of this post. If any feelings have been hurt, it might be helpful to take any ridiculous opinions (yours, mine, anybody's) less serious. It seems appropriate. |
#55
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CJ, he keeps baiting you and you keep biting bro. PG, you're behaving like a troll. We get it, you don't prefer CF guitars.
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Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple) Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco) Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR) Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa) Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber) Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon) |
#56
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And here I thought we were having some fun. OK, maybe it is a little mean to have a "battle of wits" with an unarmed kid, but I thought we could make this an educational experience to show what happens when one behaves like a brat in public. I'll stop poking at the troll. I really do like my Christmas tree, though. My real hand is extended in friendship. And now, I'll stop responding to him. Best wishes, Jim |
#57
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If I'm not mistaken, a fair number of Martins don't even use wood for the fretboard any more. So I'm curious which "all wood", "no plastic" guitar you like the best, model and make? I'd love to get my hands on one and try it sometime. |
#58
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I think one other issue with CF instruments is cost. Several years ago I had a chance to try out Peter Mix's prototype CF mandolins. They were nice, to me not too attractive, played well. I did feel that there was a harsh edge to the sound I didn't care for. At the time, maybe 2007(?), the A styles priced out at $3500 and the F's were $1000 more. Even understanding the difficulty in manufacturing them, no one who saw them or played them bought one then or subsequently although some bought traditional wood instruments costing as much or more.
Might be an expectation, perhaps an unreasonable one, that these things should sell for much less than wood. |
#59
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As for cost, a Rainsong DR1000N2 is about the same price as a Martin D-28, in my opinion that makes the Rainsong a genuine bargain. |
#60
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I assume he prefers a horse hide guitar, or maybe a titebond one. The actual material that is used is obviously irrelevant to the glue that is used. |