"I don't do covers"

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Driftless

so I can only think you don't really seek out music.

A relatively large component of my income is derived from doing cues here in Los Angeles, primarily for television. I'm approaching 24 years of that and also approaching retirement. As a part of a composition team for a now-canceled Daytime Drama, we wrapped up 23 Emmys for music composition. I have three personal Emmy nominations. I also continue mixing music and long-form television productions 5 and 6 days a week.

Sorry, but you think Titanically wrong.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

A relatively large component of my income is derived from doing cues here in Los Angeles, primarily for television. I'm approaching 24 years of that and also approaching retirement. As a part of a composition team for a now-canceled Daytime Drama, we wrapped up 23 Emmys for music composition. I have three personal Emmy nominations. I also continue mixing music and long-form television productions 5 and 6 days a week.

Sorry, but you think Titanically wrong.

So exactly how is this seeking out music? You didn't answer his point whatsoever, but instead touted your credentials, as if that somehow wins an argument.

I agree with Driftless - this is a strange thread. Musician vs. musician.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

So exactly how is this seeking out music? You didn't answer his point whatsoever, but instead touted your credentials, as if that somehow wins an argument.

I agree with Driftless - this is a strange thread. Musician vs. musician.

Not an argument. The poster described me as someone who does not seek out music. I responded.

I seek out music for a living. Every movie, every movie trailer, every weekly prime-time television show, every local writers' circle, every local composer circle, other composers, live music (what's left of it), and just for fun, a Bluegrass circle, is absolutely fundamental to keeping atop of trends, and vital in keeping competitive in a merciless difficult environment. It would seem to me a fairly obvious connection between what I do (credentials) and seeking out music. There again, maybe not.

[capefisherman]

A Cautionary Tale

Many years ago I was friends with a guy who was a great singer and player. He could have worked seven nights a week if he wanted to. He was also a very dynamic performer. All his covers were perfect and sometimes even better than the original. All of us in his musical circle were in awe of him and most more than a bit jealous.

But then something happened.

He became obsessed with a certain Eastern religion. Whether that caused the change I cannot say, but change he did. He loudly and forcefully declared from henceforth, he would only play original material.

At first, people remained in awe of him and his monster ability. Many of his songs were quite good, too. But......

His favorite songwriter at that time he decided to go all-original was Gordon Lightfoot and most of his songs could have passed for a Lightfoot tune you'd never heard. But as time passed and people's musical tastes changed (for whatever reason) GL's songs became less popular. That did not deter my friend; he kept on writing in that style, both lyrically and in his playing. The gigs began to dry up and he got the idea that his best bet was to sell his songs to well-known musicians. He gave that a good shot in New York, Nashville and eventually on the West Coast, doing everything he could to get his music into the hands and ears of famous and semi-famous musicians....and fell flat on his face again and again and again.

Now, to be clear: It was not that his music was bad, it was actually quite good, but what he refused to admit or recognize was that times - and people, both the listening public AND the pro's who who put forth their "products" - change. Many songwriters do not care about that of course and some continue to do what they do caring very little about financial gain. Sometimes they get lucky and their style comes back in vogue. And even if it doesn't they manage to scrape by, staying on the road year after year after year, playing small venues and making connections along the way. Some develop a small but loyal following. But this usually takes many years.

Is it worth it? Who knows, really. I'm pretty certain they can sleep at night knowing they've been true to their craft. If that's enough, or really the most important thing than God bless. The trick is to not allow cynicism creep in or develop a huge chip on one's shoulder, "pearls before swine" and all that.

If this guy had kept doing covers (and doing them very, very well because he definitely could) I have no doubt he could have ridden that wave to bigger venues and made connections that might have allowed him to work in some of his original material and who knows? Maybe in those circumstances his originals WOULD have been heard and even picked up by very well known artists and producers. I guess it comes down to admitting to yourself exactly why you're doing music at all, who you're trying to please and what you expect to gain.

[Driftless]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

A relatively large component of my income is derived from doing cues here in Los Angeles, primarily for television. I'm approaching 24 years of that and also approaching retirement. As a part of a composition team for a now-canceled Daytime Drama, we wrapped up 23 Emmys for music composition. I have three personal Emmy nominations. I also continue mixing music and long-form television productions 5 and 6 days a week.

Sorry, but you think Titanically wrong.

If I had to mix tv music 5 days a week I wouldn't seek out music either.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Driftless

If I had to mix tv music 5 days a week I wouldn't seek out music either.

Huh.......?

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by BKinBWa

: if you play covers, why, and if you don’t, why not?
-BK

Back to the original question. I play both. I don't mimic though. I'm no good at that. It's one reason I stay away from recent well-known songs.

This music as religion, where a person must follow all music to say they like music, outlook has always bugged me. Or a person should accept anyone's sounds as music. It has now caused me to claim that I don't like music. I just like to play guitar. And I get into music construction and how it works and makes people feel. I admire people's musical skills and their performance skills for what they are. There's nothing like going on a musical free flight playing my guitar to make my day. Songs restrain that and open it up at the same time.

[Driftless]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I seek out music for a living. Every movie, every movie trailer, every weekly prime-time television show, every local writers' circle, every local composer circle, other composers, live music (what's left of it), and just for fun, a Bluegrass circle, is absolutely fundamental to keeping atop of trends, and vital in keeping competitive in a merciless difficult environment. It would seem to me a fairly obvious connection between what I do (credentials) and seeking out music. There again, maybe not.

I posted my last comment before I read this. It wasn't snark. I assumed a certain amount of occupational hazard with that kind of work. I can't imagine having to pay attention to that sort of commercial music all day and then seeking out music for personal gratification. That would ruin music for me.

In the most literal sense, I'm sure you "seek out music", but I really didn't mean to refer to a commercial activity intended to keep you competitive in the television business.

I was referring to something people who love music do for personal gratification, and to connect to other people. A lot of songwriters write for this purpose, and I listen to them for this purpose.
Frequently live, in person, at the many venues that host primarily original music.

[gfirob]

If my band’s play list were a pie chart it would be about 33% originals, 33% rockabilly and old, obscure hillbilly music (covers of 50 and 60 year old country songs) and 33% classic rock covers, many of them re-interpreted in our own style, all of it pretty much Americana. Most of the tunes are pretty upbeat. We landed on this mix because audiences—and I am talking about bar audiences, restaurant audiences, private party audiences, fundraiser audiences—like the familiar tunes, but the band gets really bored playing them. By mixing the playlist up everybody seems to stay happy. But first and foremost we want the audience to be happy.

[ceciltguitar]

Well, there are a lot of interesting and informative responses on this thread, as well as a lot of angst and ruffled feathers, and probably some misunderstandings too.

Whatever you sing and/or play - covers, originals or both, if you and your audience and your venue are happy, it’s a win.

My own experience (ymmv) is that most audiences are more appreciative of songs / music that they are familiar with. Of course, there are are people who want to listen to original music too.

If you want to do strictly originals - go for it, and seek out venues and events that welcome your original music.

If you want to do only covers - go for it, and seek out venues and events that welcome your cover arrangements.

And if you want to do covers and original music - go for it, and seek out venues and events that welcome your approach.

Enjoy your life and your music, and if you perform for others, may your music bring happiness to others as well.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Driftless

I posted my last comment before I read this. It wasn't snark. I assumed a certain amount of occupational hazard with that kind of work. I can't imagine having to pay attention to that sort of commercial music all day and then seeking out music for personal gratification. That would ruin music for me.

In the most literal sense, I'm sure you "seek out music", but I really didn't mean to refer to a commercial activity intended to keep you competitive in the television business.

I was referring to something people who love music do for personal gratification, and to connect to other people. A lot of songwriters write for this purpose, and I listen to them for this purpose.
Frequently live, in person, at the many venues that host primarily original music.

Thanks, and I understand. I'm just unsure why you'd think my music creation world is not about personal gratification or a connection to other people. When I get a chance to hear something, I create air; it's intensely gratifying. As far as connection to people, where it's not on a personal level, it does reach a boatload of folk.

I'm also a little puzzled as to why "having to pay attention to that sort of commercial music all day" is presented as a downer. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, and Thomas Newman are but a few I follow intensely. At least for me, nothing in that pursuit seems to be trying on any level. Also, I still regularly create acoustic stuff as a form of relaxation. I've long ago learned to separate the two endeavors and continue thoroughly enjoying music creation on every level.

Anyway, all good, and horses for courses

[Driftless]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Thanks, and I understand. I'm just unsure why you'd think my music creation world is not about personal gratification or a connection to other people. When I get a chance to hear something, I create air; it's intensely gratifying. As far as connection to people, where it's not on a personal level, it does reach a boatload of folk.

I'm also a little puzzled as to why "having to pay attention to that sort of commercial music all day" is presented as a downer. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, and Thomas Newman are but a few I follow intensely. At least for me, nothing in that pursuit seems to be trying on any level. Also, I still regularly create acoustic stuff as a form of relaxation. I've long ago learned to separate the two endeavors and continue thoroughly enjoying music creation on every level.

Anyway, all good, and horses for courses

It's hard to see from others' perspectives. When I think of TV, I think of one of my least favorite sounds. TV and commercial radio are both sounds I actively avoid.
Add to that, I've known a few people who were involved in very mainstream commercial music to pay their bills, and they didn't seem to enjoy music much anymore.
So that's the lens I read your post through.

I do really like some movie scores, though.

[Dalegreen]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I would add, however I do have a strong opinion that some originals should never be covered. Where I get a tad sideways is when an original artist braggadociously states, "I don't do covers," but is not yet able to pull that off.

So true! That is a common response from so many "super star" players

A regular gig as a song writer for TV drama is quite an accomplishment, congrats on a great long term gig.

[lpa53]

To me, this obsession with singer songwriters is strange. Sinatra didn't write his own material. Either did Pavarotti. Are they not great artists? Did audiences not live them?

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by ceciltguitar

My own experience (ymmv) is that most audiences are more appreciative of songs / music that they are familiar with. Of course, there are are people who want to listen to original music too.

I play all over LA in loud clubs, listening rooms and everything in between. I also mix FOH sound. The thing people don't seem to get is that, in most settings, the experience for the audience is mainly impressionistic. They can't hear lyrics. They get the gist of cover songs, they fill in the blanks, and if you have a nice voice and look good, those are pluses. If you're doing originals on the open-mic circuit and you're counting on your words being heard, you're mostly kidding yourself. There's one venue where, with a skilled FOH mixer, you'll pull it off, but there's no guarantee. There are a few singer-songwriter "curated" house concerts around town that are excellent, but that's sort of a club that it's not easy to gain access to.

In general, people's original stuff would come off better if they thought in terms of making it appealing even if the audience can't understand the words at all -- give it a beat and a groove and a cool tune and chord changes and maybe even an instrumental line or two. But almost nobody does that, or is any good at it.