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  #1  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:37 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Default Dirty/Almost/Cheat chords

I play a lot of these and don't really know which are proper chords... my favourites are:
  • Play B as 2nd fret on A, 4th on D and G, the rest open (basically a non-barred barre chord )
  • Play E by doing the same but sliding the non-barre to 7th fret
  • C#m by sliding the shape to 4th fret and completing the Am shape on the B string
  • Play A by doing a 5th-fret barre on the E shape, but leave the top two strings (B & E) open
  • Likewise move this up two frets for B again with open B & E
  • F#m by 'mirroring' the 2nd-fret B - 2nd fret on the A string, 4th on D & G strings
  • Move this up 2 frets for G#m

And possibly my favourite chord right now is Bm done as normal but with both E strings open instead of barred. This one needs finger picking really.

As you can guess, I like to play in E I'll often capo to be able to play these 'chords' in other keys since you can slide between them so easily. The F#m is a particularly interesting sound I think.

Anyone got other similar abominations or want to tell me I'm murdering the chords?
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:57 AM
Laird_Williams Laird_Williams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd View Post
I play a lot of these and don't really know which are proper chords... my favourites are:
  • Play B as 2nd fret on A, 4th on D and G, the rest open (basically a non-barred barre chord )
  • Play E by doing the same but sliding the non-barre to 7th fret
  • C#m by sliding the shape to 4th fret and completing the Am shape on the B string
  • Play A by doing a 5th-fret barre on the E shape, but leave the top two strings (B & E) open
  • Likewise move this up two frets for B again with open B & E
  • F#m by 'mirroring' the 2nd-fret B - 2nd fret on the A string, 4th on D & G strings
  • Move this up 2 frets for G#m

And possibly my favourite chord right now is Bm done as normal but with both E strings open instead of barred. This one needs finger picking really.

As you can guess, I like to play in E I'll often capo to be able to play these 'chords' in other keys since you can slide between them so easily. The F#m is a particularly interesting sound I think.

Anyone got other similar abominations or want to tell me I'm murdering the chords?
You are not murdering anything. You are just playing some common substitutions. There is nothing wrong with that if it sounds good. Your "B", for example, is just B-E-F#, which is a Bsus4. Your "E" is E-B, which is E5...etc.

The reason all of these "work" is that the altered or added notes are still diatonic to the key of E. Further, the altered/added notes are almost always E and B...which are the root and 5th of the key, which are strongly compatible with almost any chord in that key.

You can take the fingering for nearly any chord in the key of E, fret only the fingers on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings, and it will usually sound great (although on some voicings you will want to "skip" playing the 6th string). Use a capo and you can do the same thing in several other keys.

This is one of the first tricks I teach my students to use to add texture and interest when they are chunking around on their guitars with friends. Having two people playing the "cowboy" chord (open-position) voicings in E gets dull and a bit muddy. Have ONE person playing the cowboy chords and the other playing these partially-open voicings further up the neck is often far more pleasant and interesting.

Oh - and you can sometimes do this for Em too!!

Here are some shapes for you to try - try each of them at every fret and see which ones sound good to you.

"Em shape" (4th and 5th strings fretted 2 higher than the 3rd string).
"E shape" (4th and 5th stringd fretted 1 higher than the 3rd string)
"A shape" (3rd and 4th strings fretted two higher than the 5th string).

Have fun.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2014, 09:00 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Originally Posted by Laird_Williams View Post
Further, the altered/added notes are almost always E and B...which are the root and 5th of the key, which are strongly compatible with almost any chord in that key
How did I never realise that

Are there any similar tricks in other keys or is playing in E just "lucky" since the guitar has 2 Es and a B in standard tuning?
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2014, 09:34 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by johnd View Post
How did I never realise that

Are there any similar tricks in other keys or is playing in E just "lucky" since the guitar has 2 Es and a B in standard tuning?
Yes, E is "lucky" in that way, but so are the keys of C, G, D and A, to some extent.
In fact, they're better, because in C, G and D all the open strings are in key. In A, the G string is out, and in E the D and G strings are both out.

However, it's good to be aware of what chords you're producing when you take a partial shape up the neck and leave open strings as part of the chord. Adding other notes (especially the low E or A) will likely change the identity of the chord.
Eg. if you play 0-2-4-4-0-0, as a "kind of B", what you're in fact producing is an Esus2 chord. The 6th string will sound like the root.
You can't substitute it for a B, therefore, but it could work as an embellishment of an E (or an Em come to that).

The same shape 5 frets up (as you say), is a complete E chord.
C#m with open E strings is technically still C#m (no additional notes), but the bass E might make it sound more like E6.
A with open B is Add9.
B with open B and E is Badd4.
F#m with open B and E (0-4-4-2-0-0 I guess) is a complex chord, probably best named "F#madd4/E", but "F#m/E" would probably do.
That shape 2 frets up is (G#m/E) is in fact Emaj7.

Naturally these cool sounds have been discovered by others before you .
You can hear some of those chords in the Allman Bros' "Melissa" and Fairport Convention's "Who Knows Where the Time Goes".
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:41 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Eg. if you play 0-2-4-4-0-0, as a "kind of B", what you're in fact producing is an Esus2 chord. The 6th string will sound like the root.
You can't substitute it for a B, therefore
That I'd have to disagree with In a song which excitingly (!) goes E - A - C#m - B I would often do:

0-7-9-9-0-0
0-0-2-2-0-0 (I often play this rather than proper A as I am lazy)
0-4-6-6-5-0
0-2-4-4-0-0

I generally do play all 6 strings and it sounds nice but playing acoustic in a band alongside a bass, keys and electric I figure I'm not defining the chords really so it's OK?
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:35 AM
Laird_Williams Laird_Williams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd View Post
That I'd have to disagree with In a song which excitingly (!) goes E - A - C#m - B I would often do:

0-7-9-9-0-0
0-0-2-2-0-0 (I often play this rather than proper A as I am lazy)
0-4-6-6-5-0
0-2-4-4-0-0

I generally do play all 6 strings and it sounds nice but playing acoustic in a band alongside a bass, keys and electric I figure I'm not defining the chords really so it's OK?
Esus2 and Bsus4 have exactly the same notes - E, F#, and B.
The only difference is which of the 3 notes involved is the root of the chord.
Esus2 = E,F#,B
Bsus4 = B, E, F#
So, technically, you COULD (it would be silly - but not incorrect to) choose to annotate a Bsus4 as an Esus2/B or an Esus2 and a Bsus4/E.

Then you have to think functionally...when is this chord a Bsus4 and when is it an Esus2. Well, are you using it like a B chord (or as a substitute for a B chord) or like an E chord?
THAT would give you the "more correct" answer in most cases.

So Esus2 would be technically correct, but in the this case it would be more correct to use the Bsus4 name, since you are using it as a simple alteration to a B chord.

Last edited by Laird_Williams; 10-09-2014 at 10:41 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2014, 10:38 AM
johnd johnd is offline
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Interesting. Just need to make sure the bass player plays the B
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2014, 10:49 AM
Laird_Williams Laird_Williams is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Yes, E is "lucky" in that way, but so are the keys of C, G, D and A, to some extent.
In fact, they're better, because in C, G and D all the open strings are in key. In A, the G string is out, and in E the D and G strings are both out.
True enough - but it is "extra" true for E and Em, since it is both the 1 and the 5 of the key that are open - and on the highest strings no-less, which makes them well suited for droning. The 1 and 5 are the notes MOST consonant (on average) to al of the diatonic chords in the key. Playing in the key of "C" for example and leaving the major 3rd of the key open (the E) works a lot of the time, but not nearly often as leaving the root (which is not open in standard tuning) or the 5th (the G). You'd be stunned what harmonies you can get by just learning all of your "normal" (not augmented or diminished) triad and power-chord shapes for the key of E on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings (including inversions) and then playing with strings 1 and 2 open.

Interestingly, I sometimes tune to E-A-D-G-C-E and then leave 2 and 3 open for the key of C. You can get some interesting voicings there. You can leave 1,2,3 open in that tuning too - but having the E in the mix is far less versatile than you might think.

Then there is DADGAD - which is all about liberally mixing open and fretted strings no matter where you are on the fretboard.

Last edited by Laird_Williams; 10-09-2014 at 11:00 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2014, 11:51 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by johnd View Post
That I'd have to disagree with In a song which excitingly (!) goes E - A - C#m - B I would often do:

0-7-9-9-0-0
0-0-2-2-0-0 (I often play this rather than proper A as I am lazy)
0-4-6-6-5-0
0-2-4-4-0-0

I generally do play all 6 strings and it sounds nice but playing acoustic in a band alongside a bass, keys and electric I figure I'm not defining the chords really so it's OK?
Could be. No problem (or minimal ones) with the first 3 at least.
With the E and A, you're losing the 3rd of the chord, which can be a valuable chord tone. Power chords and sus2s sound good, of course, but not always for every the song.
The C#m - like I say - is still C#m in that shape, and the low E is simply superfluous, not disruptive.

You'll get an interestingly ambiguous chord for that last one, however, if the bass is playing B. You're adding a low E, which is bass register. The E on top is an add4, which could sound fine, but a lower E might be more of a problem, especially if the bass decides to add the 3rd of the chord (D#), which he could well do in a walking line; that will sit right against your bass E, a half-step away.
Why not just mute the low E? Test it out next time you play with the band, really listen for that low E and check whether you like it, whether it would be better without it. It's much more of a B chord without it, that's for sure.

Then again, as you're a "lazy" player, maybe you don't care that much how things sound?
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:54 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Interesting. Just need to make sure the bass player plays the B
Of course. But a sus4 doesn't usually go that low in the bass, and your bassist would still have to play a B below your E, for the chord to sound like a B chord.

Again, it's about really listening to the options and the variations. Make sure that low E is OK, and is not muddying up the overall sound: robbing the B of it's "B-ness".
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:54 PM
johnd johnd is offline
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Then again, as you're a "lazy" player, maybe you don't care that much how things sound?
Lazy hands not lazy ears
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:39 PM
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What ever sounds good, or like you intend it to sound, is not cheating. One thing I do not like to see is a D played sounding an open E 6th string. I know this might be done for effect, but if it's every time it should be corrected.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:39 AM
EoE EoE is offline
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I college I was on scholarship for bass. well second semester the jazz conductor liked my solos and made me play guitar so I had to learn to read all kinds of cords quickly and didn't have time to memorize a whole book of cords. fortunately I new all the scales on the top 4 strings well. I learned all the basic bar cords and by knowing my scales I was able to play any diminished or 13 etc by catching a few of the notes in the cord in that bar shape/ scale shape.. when playing in a larger group you do not have to play all the notes in a cord. so anyway there are so many ways to play cords on a guitar it can be overwhelming. I still do not play cords like everyone else I look where my hand is and find the easy way to transition to my next cord based on where I am going in stead of playing memorized cord shapes. I have memorized the fret board instead.
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:34 PM
Jason Paul Jason Paul is offline
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You might be interested in these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlhLyIyLF0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWzXey01igo#t=53

Jason
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