The Edwinson ATHENA Crossover Project

theEdwinson · #1 02-22-2014, 08:39 PM

I have been building acoustic guitars of my own design for nearly fourteen years now, and the deeper into it I get, the more my love for the instrument grows. While I have always been primarily a steel-stringer, I have been been irresistibly drawn in the direction of the nylon-string sound in recent times. This new fascination really began to take root and grow last year, when I designed and built my first nylon-string crossover guitar, based on my 000-sized Consort model. That guitar involved a great deal of study and research, and a fair amount of risk-taking as well, as I determined from the get-go that I was going to take some major departures from traditional classical guitar design, inside and out.
That first one turned out rather well, I thought. And I've heard nothing but positive reviews from my friend Paul who commissioned it. Since then, I got the idea to design a new model, hybrid crossover guitar, which I decided to call the Edwinson Athena. If these first two Athenas turn out as well as I think they will, this will be a permanent new model in my lineup.
I am now about halfway through the construction of the first two Athena prototypes; so I thought this would be a good time to start a build thread featuring these two new guitars. One is a commission build for John H., who already owns one of my steel-string Consort guitars. The other one, I hope to keep for at least awhile, so I can see firsthand how it opens up and develops a voice.
Here are the back and side woods selected for these two guitars. First, John's "WindHorse Athena, with rare and beautiful Indonesian Rosewood:

This wood is a true Dalbergia rosewood, however it does not as yet have an official subspecies name. In Indonesia, they call it Palisander-- which is a name given to several different species of rosewood. It has gorgeous figure and color, and it is hard and dense. Its working characteristics are similar to Brazilian and Madagascar RW. It has an intoxicating, floral aroma when you sand and cut it. It has a strong, sustaining, glassy or metallic tap tone, much like Ziricote or Macassar Ebony. This wood is paired with a splendid Tunnel 13 Redwood top that I bought last summer while attending the Healdsburg Guitar Festival:

The other Athena has Peruvian Walnut back and sides. Lovely dark chocolate color, with shimmering, swirly figure. This wood is much lighter than the rosewood, and is even lighter than Claro or Black Walnut; and it has a tap tone very similar to Monkey Pod or Koa.

This Peruvian Walnut is paired up with some unusual Red Cedar that I got up in Seattle. I call it "Lucky Strike Red Cedar", because it's extraordinarily good stuff, and I got about twenty sets of it. It is very stiff, even grain spacing, fairly light in color, with mild "pillow quilt" figure in some sets, and it has a tap tone than will knock you back on your heels. I suspect that this Cedar came from a coastal tree, probably Olympic Peninsula, as opposed to the alpine cedar that grows inland, at higher altitudes, and usually has tighter annular lines. It is a LOT stiffer for its weight than most red cedar I've handled, actually very similar to Alaskan Sitka spruce.

I will be back soon to show you what I've been doing with these woods.

Mark Hatcher · #2 02-22-2014, 09:09 PM

It's great to see more crossovers in the works! I look forward to what you have in store for us. I also like both of your back and side set selections and look forward to seeing how they work out tonally for you.

Thanks for putting these up!
Mark

theEdwinson · #3 02-22-2014, 09:12 PM

I started the project with the Peruvian/ Red cedar Athena. Both guitars are built with double side construction, which is pretty much standard on all my guitars now. For these two, that is an important feature, as both the Rosewood and the Peruvian Walnut are mostly slab-sawn. The inner sides are quarter-sawn Ipe, which will add structural stability and keep the weight down.
I have had difficulty in the past bending slabby wood, but in both cases here, the bends turned out flawless. I've had great success with difficult woods by going thinner (5/64ths thick), using a silicon heating blanket in the bender, and most importantly, bending the wood DRY instead of wet. No problems at all with rippling or any other sort of distortion.
Also, I bend both pieces of each side together, so they conform perfectly when I glue them up.

Below, the sides are bent, laminated, and blocked, and I'm using the radiused sanding dishes to radius the rims:

And next, the kerfed linings are glued in:

...And while nobody was looking, I got a good start on the back. I really like what Mark Hatcher does with the logo emblem inside the sound hole, so I borrowed the idea. Thanks, Mark!
The braces are Adirondack spruce, and the lower bout has a double-lap asterisk design, first used one the two Athena prototypes.

...And now, the process of reduction:

theEdwinson · #4 02-22-2014, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

It's great to see more crossovers in the works! I look forward to what you have in store for us. I also like both of your back and side set selections and look forward to seeing how they work out tonally for you.

Thanks for putting these up!
Mark

Hi, Mark! As you see above, I have been influenced by some of your ideas. The logo emblem just inside the sound hole, for one. I'm also going to try to take some better photos.

Though you are the undisputed master of that!

I have been noticing a LOT of interest in crossover guitars recently. Here on the AGF, we're seeing more crossover action than ever. I, for one, am very excited about this. I LOVE the sound of a well-made, intelligently designed nylon string guitar. I think it will open up some vast new possibilities for tone, and also have a strong influence on composition for guitar music. That's the whole idea- a kind of hybridization between steel-string and nylon-string fingerstyle idioms. Who knows- maybe this will give rise to a whole new style of acoustic guitar music.

fountainhead · #5 02-22-2014, 09:39 PM

Steve- absolutely stunning work on your new "Athena" guitars! I love your bracing ideas, and the passion with which you build. Nice that people like yourself and Mark Hatcher love building them, as much as we love playing them! Bravo- and please keep these threads coming!

theEdwinson · #6 02-22-2014, 10:05 PM

Fitting the back to the rims:

Cutting in the Tri-port sound ports on the lower bout hip:

The tricky part is doing an artful job shaping these small apertures. More on that soon.
I just recently started doing the tri-port design on the lower bout hip, on a Falcon I built last summer. This placement works very well, and adds a new style point to the guitar.

theEdwinson · #7 02-23-2014, 12:46 PM

With the Peruvian/ Red Cedar Athena well underway, it's time to begin the Indonesian Rosewood guitar. Check out the beautiful figure and color of this wood:

Gluing in the center seam reinforcement:

Bending the sides. Using a silicone heating blanket, I can bend the inner and outer sides together at the same time time, which makes them conform perfectly for the lamination process. Both the inner and outer sides are thicknessed to around 5/64". I built my side bender without the lightbulb-heated hot box, as with traditional Fox benders. The silicon blanket is the way to go! Just make sure you use a rheostat and a shut-off timer; and do not EVER answer your phone while you're bending sides!
During a lecture at a GAL convention awhile back, someone in the audience asked Charles Fox (inventor of the Fox side bender) why he had never patented the Fox bender. He replied that it would have been a bad idea to take out a patent on a tool that is designed to burn your shop and your house to the ground, if left unattended for twenty minutes! Can't dispute that logic!
Truly, these bending machines are wonderfully convenient. But you have to be very careful. A slight lapse of attention can result in disaster!

Gluing in the back braces in the Go deck:

...and the back is now braced and tuned!

JoeCharter · #8 02-23-2014, 01:22 PM

Steve, you certainly know how to choose beautiful tone woods.

The Peruvian walnut is among the prettiest I've ever seen. It's a matter of personal taste of course but I think it looks incredible -- the colour, the figure, the consistency.

The Indonesian rosewood looks spectacular as well. I really love the colour variation on the back.

theEdwinson · #9 02-23-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCharter

Steve, you certainly know how to choose beautiful tone woods.

The Peruvian walnut is among the prettiest I've ever seen. It's a matter of personal taste of course but I think it looks incredible -- the colour, the figure, the consistency.

The Indonesian rosewood looks spectacular as well. I really love the colour variation on the back.

Thanks, Mau. You know, over the years, I've been able to shed some bad habits acquired in my youth. But I will always and forever be a tonewood junkie! Every time I get a little money in my pocket, I'm off buying wood. I ask myself, if I acquire a stash that is sufficient for the rest of my life as a guitar maker, will I be able to stop? Hmmm.... NO, I probably won't. I will need to have enough on hand that I can trade and barter with!
In fact, right now, I am trying to drum up some lucre to buy some Ziricote and Cocobolo that I found available online. Anybody want a great deal on a very nice guitar? Scroll down to the bottom of this page: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=317955

And now for some more photos of the Indonesian Rosewood Athena. I'm jumping ahead a little bit, so there's been some progress in the build.

And here's a look at the Peruvian Walnut one, with the soundbox all buttoned up, ready for the binding work:

The Walnut has a sealer coat of shellac applied, so this is more like the color we'll get under lacquer. This guitar is getting flamed Koa bindings.

theEdwinson · #10 02-23-2014, 06:47 PM

And here are some shots of further progress on the Rosewood guitar. John asked me to make this guitar with a Ryan-style bevel and my new Tri-port sound port design on the lower bout hip.

Here's a detail shot of the tri-port, showing the Maple accent line between the inner and outer sides:

theEdwinson · #11 02-23-2014, 07:06 PM

Here are a couple shots of the rosette on John's Rosewood Athena. John already owns a Consort, called the "Windhorse", which I built for him last year. He asked me to make a rosette with the same theme as that guitar. So I made another one of my "Asym" rosettes, using flamed Pyinma wood (SE ASIA) for the inner and outer rings, Ziricote for the dark background, and copper, Pyinma, Indonesian Rosewood, and black and rust veneer lines.

Every guitar I build has a bound sound hole, and in this case, it's Ziricote. I do this because it just makes sense to protect that softwood end grain from years of onslaught from picks and fingernails. And, I think it really completes the composition of a nice rosette.

Next up, I'll show you my radical, some might even say heretical top bracing for these nylon string guitars. Stay tuned!

Jim.S · #12 02-23-2014, 07:09 PM

Hi Steve, I noticed that the template pattern on the "Indo Rosewood" is the same template that the Ebay vendor "brith_snipe" uses on the wood he sells as "Indonesian rosewood" and was wondering if it came from him? (yours as far as your description and photos go looks a bit better than what he sells on Ebay).

Jim

theEdwinson · #13 02-23-2014, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Hi Steve, I noticed that the template pattern on the "Indo Rosewood" is the same template that the Ebay vendor "brith_snipe" uses on the wood he sells as "Indonesian rosewood" and was wondering if it came from him? (yours as far as your description and photos go looks a bit better than what he sells on Ebay).

Jim

Hi, Jim,
Here's my source for the Indonesian Rosewood. I am fairly sure this is the same seller as the one who sells this wood on eBay:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4601730&type=3
You will notice they use the same weird guitar template.
Most of the Indo I've seen on eBay lately is kind of, "meh..." but if you check in every week or so, sometimes you'll see some incredibly spectacular sets.
I scored nine sets of this wood after I got back from Healdsburg last summer. Every one of them is gorgeous! However, costs run up-- I had to pay about $70 per set for shipping, to import this wood.

theEdwinson · #14 02-23-2014, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Hi Steve, I noticed that the template pattern on the "Indo Rosewood" is the same template that the Ebay vendor "brith_snipe" uses on the wood he sells as "Indonesian rosewood" and was wondering if it came from him? (yours as far as your description and photos go looks a bit better than what he sells on Ebay).

Jim

Oh, by the way, Jim, you can also find Indonesian rosewood sometimes at Allied Lutherie. It has a high-end price tag, but a lot less hassle getting it delivered to your front door. And Todd Taggart is one of the best guy in the biz; so I would go there first.

Jim.S · #15 02-23-2014, 08:15 PM

Well that is good to hear, most of the reports of this wood I have heard have been negative ones, "unstable", "bad tap", "not worth the price" etc but wood will be wood and you get good and bad.

I did hear on the grape vine that one USA based luthier (not sure who) has had it tested (because it is curious that it is touted as having no botanical species) and it came up as Dalbergia Lattifolia which stands to reason as "sonokeling" (D.Lattifolia) has been planted in Indonesia as a wind break for coffee plantations for a long time. It grows very fast as a consequence of the fertilising of the coffee plants.

Can you tell by the growth rings if yours is a fast grow? As far as I can gather not all sonokeling comes from the coffee plantations in Indonesia, some may come from other plantations separate from the coffee stuff but it is difficult to be sure. Also the negative reports I have heard have been of wood purchased from the Ebay guy so maybe he moves the poorer quality stuff through Ebay.

I got pretty suspicious of the Ebay vendor when he says "In many aspects, this Indonesian Rosewood tend to be closer to Brazilian Rosewood than to any other rosewood (you can examine this by yourself from the pictures). It can be said that maybe it is a kind of Brazilian Rosewood."

"It can be said that maybe it is a kind of Brazilian Rosewood"

what the heck is that.

He does go on to say after that though "But don’t confuse this Indonesian Rosewood with the Brazilian one. It is not from Brazil, so it is not Brazilian Rosewood. Don’t make a mistake. You will get what you see."

The other thing that makes me real curious is that apparently it has only been designated a genus and no species, I reckon if that was the case then the Indonesian botanists would all be scrambling to be the first to give it a species name, maybe something like Dalbergia Yudhoyonoensii, scientists can always do with a bit of extra funding.

Jim