Problem getting to performance tempo

[gitardude]

I've been working away at fingerstyle blues and rag for about six years now with a good teacher, and for anything that moves around the fretboard, say from first to fifth or higher position, I have lots of trouble getting up adequate speed. I practice plenty, and I repeat things ad nauseum. Is it possible that my hand-brain coordination just isn't up to the task? Anyone else have similar problems? Any ideas? Thanks.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by gitardude

I've been working away at fingerstyle blues and rag for about six years now with a good teacher, and for anything that moves around the fretboard, say from first to fifth or higher position, I have lots of trouble getting up adequate speed. I practice plenty, and I repeat things ad nauseum. Is it possible that my hand-brain coordination just isn't up to the task? Anyone else have similar problems? Any ideas? Thanks.

I'm assuming you're putting in daily practice as opposed to just a lot of practice. There's a difference. If you practice like the dickens for two days in a row and keep missing the third you simply won't meet your goals.

If you are putting in the daily practice then have your teacher show you how to properly use a metronome. You'd be surprised at how much of a difference that will make in your playing.

One more point on practicing: are you singling out those trouble spots when you practice or are you, which many people do by the way, practicing the entire piece all the time? Take out the trouble spot, slow it down to a speed that enables you to play it cleanly, make a note of that speed and take it from there. Play it at that speed, cleanly and without mistakes MANY times over for a few days before inching up to the next speed.

Keep at it and you'll do fine.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

I'm assuming you're putting in daily practice as opposed to just a lot of practice. There's a difference. If you practice like the dickens for two days in a row and keep missing the third you simply won't meet your goals.

If you are putting in the daily practice then have your teacher show you how to properly use a metronome. You'd be surprised at how much of a difference that will make in your playing.

One more point on practicing: are you singling out those trouble spots when you practice or are you, which many people do by the way, practicing the entire piece all the time? Take out the trouble spot, slow it down to a speed that enables you to play it cleanly, make a note of that speed and take it from there. Play it at that speed, cleanly and without mistakes MANY times over for a few days before inching up to the next speed.

Keep at it and you'll do fine.

Daily practice--check. Repeating trouble spots--check. Using metronome--yes, but probably could use it more. Will try to take out trouble spots temporarily. Thanks much.

[clintj]

I have the same problem at times, and find I simply can't get my tempo past a certain point until I have a piece truly committed to memory - that is, I can play it 100% right without looking at the music whatsoever. Reading music, or even trying to remember the music as I go, while playing is just more multitasking than I can deal with some days.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by gitardude

Any ideas? Thanks.

It occurs to me that factors that govern an idividuals learning speed are,
1. Time available for practice
2. Target difficulty level
3. Age

The more you practice the better you get.
Try stuff too difficult and you may make very poor progress, try stuff to easy and you will get bored. Somewhere in the middle is the ideal. Interesting material that is rewarding and encouraging.

As to age, I've now got lots. I have a theory that your time spent practicing can be seen as a fraction of your whole life. I've just crunched some simple numbers. A fifteen year old who practices for one hour, invests one

15x365x24 or

1/140160 th of his life.

a sixty year old who practices for one hour invests one

60x365x24 or

1/525600 th of his life.

divide 525600 by 140160 and you get 3.75. This could suggest that the 60 year old has to practice 3.75 times as long as the 15 year old to make the same progress.

Of course if the sixty year old started playing at the age of 15 his total time spent practicing will be far in excess of a fifteen year old who started last week. The moral is start as young as possible, put in as much time as you can and don't aim too high too soon. A good teacher should provide material that both challenges and rewards you. Good practice should get you high.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by stanron

It occurs to me that factors that govern an idividuals learning speed are,
1. Time available for practice
2. Target difficulty level
3. Age

The more you practice the better you get.
Try stuff too difficult and you may make very poor progress, try stuff to easy and you will get bored. Somewhere in the middle is the ideal. Interesting material that is rewarding and encouraging.

As to age, I've now got lots. I have a theory that your time spent practicing can be seen as a fraction of your whole life. I've just crunched some simple numbers. A fifteen year old who practices for one hour, invests one

15x365x24 or

1/140160 th of his life.

a sixty year old who practices for one hour invests one

60x365x24 or

1/525600 th of his life.

divide 525600 by 140160 and you get 3.75. This could suggest that the 60 year old has to practice 3.75 times as long as the 15 year old to make the same progress.

Of course if the sixty year old started playing at the age of 15 his total time spent practicing will be far in excess of a fifteen year old who started last week. The moral is start as young as possible, put in as much time as you can and don't aim too high too soon. A good teacher should provide material that both challenges and rewards you. Good practice should get you high.

Starting at 66 might have been a little challenging for me.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by gitardude

I've been working away at fingerstyle blues and rag for about six years now with a good teacher, and for anything that moves around the fretboard, say from first to fifth or higher position, I have lots of trouble getting up adequate speed. I practice plenty, and I repeat things ad nauseum. Is it possible that my hand-brain coordination just isn't up to the task? Anyone else have similar problems? Any ideas? Thanks.

Kind of vague. What tempos, what pieces? How complicated are the pieces?

Say 4/4 at about 90 bpm on "Windy and Warm" as in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQhrLDkcXLA

Or say around 80 bpm as in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Hbuf6FEoY

Those are typical tempos for a lot of blues and bluesy ragtime stuff. Many pieces can come across at many tempos - Cincinnati Rag I have heard played around the above tempos (as in the above link) and have also heard barn burner versions north of 120 bpm.

See how fast you can just do the basic alternate thumb picking pattern evenly and cleanly. That is your top speed. You are bound to be slower than that in a real piece.

Anyway, consistent finger ends (nails or fingerpicks), knowing the piece inside and out, and of course practice.

[stanron]

At least you have started.

If your practice is successful you should be able to detect change. If the change is slow it helps if you routinely keep some kind of record of achievement. Some people do this by recording themselves. Maybe once a week on your current practice project. It doesn't have to be super high quality. If your PC has a microphone that would do, so would a smart phone. Save the files as mp3s, they are small files.

Equally useful would be timing how long it takes to play your current practice piece every day and keeping a record of that would show if the speed increases. Whatever kind of record you keep, reviewing it can help if your motivation hits a low.

[DupleMeter]

It seems to me from your post that you still have trouble spots...if that's the case you should't be increasing the tempo. Quite the contrary, take the tempo down a few clicks to where you can get those trouble spots cleaned up.

Once you have a piece you can play at the slower tempo without struggle, then it's time to slowly increase the tempo towards your target tempo.

If you were my student that's what I would have you do. As well as taking those trouble spots to work them out outside the piece then bring them back into the piece.

Typically I'd have a student play the trouble measure(s) over and over until they got them worked out. Then get them with the measure before that spot to the measure after (leading in and leading out of the trouble section). Then work it back into the piece.

Hope that makes sense.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Kind of vague. What tempos, what pieces? How complicated are the pieces?

Say 4/4 at about 90 bpm on "Windy and Warm" as in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQhrLDkcXLA

Or say around 80 bpm as in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Hbuf6FEoY

Those are typical tempos for a lot of blues and bluesy ragtime stuff. Many pieces can come across at many tempos - Cincinnati Rag I have heard played around the above tempos (as in the above link) and have also heard barn burner versions north of 120 bpm.

See how fast you can just do the basic alternate thumb picking pattern evenly and cleanly. That is your top speed. You are bound to be slower than that in a real piece.

Anyway, consistent finger ends (nails or fingerpicks), knowing the piece inside and out, and of course practice.

I can't get Windy and Warm above 50. I should note, in addition to having started playing when I was in my mid-60s, I have pretty short, stubby fingers, which doesn't help a great deal. But I'm still having fun with whatever.

[DESERTRAT1]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

Play it at that speed, cleanly and without mistakes MANY times over for a few days before inching up to the next speed.

Keep at it and you'll do fine.

That is exactly what I was taught and it works. The reason for it of course is that you don't want to repeat and reinforce your mistakes. On the other hand (perhaps because I've been playing for so long) I've done it the other way around, playing the entire piece without stopping at my desired speed and disregarding fingering mistakes until the they go away. That works as well. In fact I often employ both methods during the same practice session, one to practice accuracy and the other to practice speed. It's just two different roads to the same destination.