Low E against high e

[Guitars+gems]

I love all the theory offered here behind the answer to the OP's question! Pursuant to Looburst's comment about ugly overtones, I had fun experimenting. I tried putting the low E into the C on both my Martins. On the 00L-17, which is more fundamental in tone, CEGCE sounded better than ECEGCE, but not really bad. You could get away with it if you were strumming a I-IV-V, especially 'cause you don't necessarily hit all 6 strings on every strum anyway. On the rosewood dread though, the ECEGCE was more obviously unpleasant; sort of brash, not subtle. And it made the I-IV-V sound cheesy, or more amateurish I guess, which makes sense because I think did play all 6 strings on every open chord when I started! But I could be influenced by preconceived notions about the 2 guitars and how they sound.


Regarding this:

A slight thread drift here, but it drives me nuts when I see/hear someone play a first position F chord with the bottom E open instead of fretted at the 1st - and they don't seem to notice that it produces a discord! If ya can't/don't wanna play a barre, wrap yer thumb over, for goodness' sake!

But that is a chord in its own right, Fmaj7. It doesn't sound discordant to me, but do you mean when it's substituted for an F Major? Then I can understand that it doesn't sound right. And that's another thing I did when I started - I'd make that substitution because I couldn't play an F Major. And now I can, so yay - progress!

One other thing I'm wondering about though I haven't seen anyone comment about it: the low E in C Major is not "muted" is it? You just don't play it at all.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

But that is a chord in its own right, Fmaj7.

He said "bottom E", which means 6th string (as confirmed by his thumb comment).
That IS a kind of Fmaj7, technically (3rd inversion), but a pretty ugly one!

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

One other thing I'm wondering about though I haven't seen anyone comment about it: the low E in C Major is not "muted" is it? You just don't play it at all.

What if you're strumming? It's not easy to keep your arm relaxed and avoid the low E. Always safer to mute.
Or do what I do (most of the time) and fret the 6th as a low G. "C/G" will usually work wherever you have a C, where "C/E" won't.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by gfa

Interesting Q! I think - and this is Mr. I Know Only a Thimbleful of Theory speaking here - it's because our ear "wants" to hear the root in the bass. Putting another chord tone in the bass adds a certain color, sometimes desirable and sometimes not.

Yes, you wouldn't to strum a 1st inversion chord (3rd in the bass) for any length of time, but they're common when you have a moving bass line. C/E tends to want to resolve to F (as in Kings of Leon's Use Somebody).

It can also be used with a descending bass line. Obviously on normal 6-string that bass E can't go any further, but try the following:

-1---0---1---1---
-1---1---3---1---
-2---0---3---2---
-3---2---0---3---
-------------3---
-----------------

There's a C/E and a Bb/D! Two 1st inversion chords.

That may not be a common move, but how about this:

-3---2---0-
-0---3---0-
-0---2---0-
-0---0---2-
-2---0---2-
-3---2---0-

D/F# is really the same thing as C/E, 2 frets up. But much more common because the F# can carry on down to E.

[Guitars+gems]

Hi Jon,

Originally Posted by JonPR

He said "bottom E", which means 6th string (as confirmed by his thumb comment).
That IS a kind of Fmaj7, technically (3rd inversion), but a pretty ugly one!
What if you're strumming? It's not easy to keep arm relaxed and avoid the low E. Always safer to mute.
Or do what I do (most of the time) and fret the 6th as a low G. "C/G" will usually work wherever you have a C, where "C/E" won't.

Oh, okay, I get it now. Sorry - I do still mix up top and bottom. I can play the barre but I'm slow changing to and from it, and with thumbing over I can never seem to make a clean note, so I just play the open F but avoid the low E. Because it sounds off. For D Major, I don't play the 5th and 6th strings, so I thought it would be the same for C and F and all the other chords which don't need a note from the 6th string.

So on muting, do you just place the pinky on the 6th string to quiet it? If it's not part of the chord?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

Hi Jon,

Oh, okay, I get it now. Sorry - I do still mix up top and bottom. I can play the barre but I'm slow changing to and from it, and with thumbing over I can never seem to make a clean note, so I just play the open F but avoid the low E. Because it sounds off. For D Major, I don't play the 5th and 6th strings, so I thought it would be the same for C and F and all the other chords which don't need a note from the 6th string.

So on muting, do you just place the pinky on the 6th string to quiet it? If it's not part of the chord?

Pinky??? No, you wrap the thumb over the top of the neck, to just touch the 6th.

True, it's tough if you have small hands and are playing a classical-style wide neck. (Classical players NEVER put their thumb over, because of course they don't strum chords. Unless they're full barres that is.)

But muting the 6th with the thumb is a common technique on steel-string, on C, D or A chords (and Am and Dm).

For free strumming, you need to be able to swing the arm in a wide relaxed move, hitting all the strings (or not caring too much which ones you hit). So you need to mute any which sound bad with the chord, which means the 6th string on C and D chords.

On the A or Am chord, leaving the 6th open is OK, it sounds OK if you hit it when strumming (all 6 strings). Likewise the A string on a D chord - no need to mute that (or avoid it).
IOW, when the 5th of the chord is in the bass (A/E, D/A) it doesn't sound as bad as when the 3rd of the chord is in the bass (C/E, D/F#) - unless you need that 3rd as part of a bass line.

The D/F# chord is very common (if you haven't yet seen a song with one yet, you will! ), and most players will fret the F# with the thumb - even though it's possible to adjust your fingering of the D to play it with your index.
Still, you can often do without the bass note - the song may sound fine without it. If you were playing in a band, the bass player would play the F# and you'd just play D.

For the F chord, btw, the barre is worth getting comfortable with, but I agree you often need another fingering for particular changes.

Here's my preference for what I call "lazy F", for changing from C and back (the most common chord you find next to an F):
-(1)- (index, fret if possible or mute)
--1-- index
--2-- middle
--3-- pinky
--3-- ring
-(1)- (thumb, fret if possible or mute)

So that's one finger per string on the middle 4, muting the outer two (the index leans over, but it doesn't matter if it frets or mutes the 1st string as long as it's not left open - unless you actually want an Fmaj7). That moves very easily to C and back. Naturally for the C you can release that 1st string, but keep the 6th muted. Index and ring stay in place.

Here's Neil Young using "lazy F": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOv9nwuC67Y&t=36 (C > G > F)
- in fact, he seems to move to an even lazier one later:
--x-- (mute with index
--1-- index
--2-- middle
--x-- (mute with ring)
--3-- ring
--1-- thumb
(he sometimes hammers on the 3rd string)
It's still an "F" chord, because it has all the required notes (F-A-C, in fact with 2 Cs).

I sometimes use this C/G shape:
--0--
--1-- index
--0--
--2-- middle
--3-- pinky
--3-- ring
So my middle-pinky-ring formation just shifts one string across.

[MinorKey]

I don't mute the low E, I just don't play it