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Laminated guitars
Would you guys and gals please clear up for me a problem which has been bugging me for some time, and that is what is meant by a laminated top, back or side? Does it mean plywood, where each layer is laid at 90 degrees to its neighbour, or does the grain of each laminate lie parallel? Or are there subtle variations where some manufacturers mean one thing and others another?
Please help, I need to sleep easily. |
#2
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The proof is in the tone.
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Nothing bothers me unless I let it. Martin D18 Gibson J45 Gibson J15 Fender Copperburst Telecaster Squier CV 50 Stratocaster Squier CV 50 Telecaster |
#3
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The short answer is yes, laminated is what you're describing. The two exceptions that come immediately to mind:
1) Taylor GS Mini arched backs which are solid wood with veneer (IMHO different from true laminates or composites.) 2) Various maker's double tops, i.e. Lowden Jon Gomm signature model, which is spruce and cedar. |
#4
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Typically, laminated guitars have had two outer layers of the "show" faces with an inner layer of poplar.
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#5
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That's only true on the cheaper guitars. Yairi and other Japanese guitar makers have been making guitars out of high quality laminated tone woods for years. I believe it was Yairi that perfect the process.
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Warren My website: http://draudio56.wix.com/warren-bendler "It's hard...calming the Beatle inside of me." |
#6
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Is that universally true? I thought that was Taylor who did that. For instance, Seagull laminates cherry. As mentioned, Yairi does its own thing. I think Guild does something else as well.
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#7
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I have a inexpensive laminate guitar, a Fender CP100 parlor. Not the greatest sounding but it is so comfortable and playable. Perfect couch guitar. Virtually unused with a stand. $135Cdn($100US). I would try them first and frown upon them later if they are not up sound/price point. Solid tops and laminate sides/back can be excellent for their sound/price point.
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#8
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....individual manufacturer's processes vary.....so, no...they're not all alike....but for the price point.....there are some pretty nice ones out there...
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#9
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Django Reinhardt and his Selmer "petit bouche" guitar Our view of laminated woods in acoustic guitar construction has really been colored by the flood of inexpensive Asian-made guitars that began showing up in North America in the late 1960's, and which have dominated the entry level end of the market ever since. But it was considered a major technological advance in the 1930's, and so during that era laminated woods were deliberately used on high end professional quality instruments. Anyway, the point is that there are laminates and there are laminates. The laminated woods that Gibson and Guild use for their pressed arched back acoustic guitars are of very high quality, as are the laminates used on archtop electrics like the Gibson 335. In acoustic guitar construction, the three layers of solid cherry used for Seagull and Simon & Patrick guitar backs and sides are also of excellent quality. So the use of laminates in acoustic guitar construction is a choice, and sometimes it's an excellent choice for musical reasons: the guitar Django played probably wouldn't have sounded the same or projected as well had it been made of all-solid woods. And truthfully, I like the sound of the solid top/laminated back and sides Seagulls and Simon & Patricks better than I like their more expensive all-solid wood models. Hope that makes sense. Wade Hampton Miller |
#10
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Wayne J-45 song of the day archive https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ My music https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76 https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic My guitars Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine Last edited by Rmz76; 10-29-2016 at 03:45 PM. |
#11
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Thankyou to all for replying. As I now understand it, the grain of the (usually) 3 laminates lie parallel with the lesser wood hidden from sight.
I must say I've had some truly great guitars over the years which had partial laminate construction and although I no longer own any full-blown acoustics of that type, I have an ES339, ES335 and Eastman AR371 all of which are 100% laminated. Horses for courses I suppose. It's such a pity that laminate construction is still looked down upon to a certain extent, but as some of you mentioned, makers such as Taylor and Gibson seem to make a good job of it. Thanks again. |
#12
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#13
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The word "ply" is a noun that means a thin layer. Laminate is a verb that means to bond on top of one another.
Part of the confusion is the wording used. The most popular plywood is home construction wood, where junk wood is layered at 90 degrees to greatly increase strength. Because of the popularity the name "plywood" became synonymous with this low-cost, low-quality home construction wood. All plywood is laminated. All laminated wood is made of plys. The guitar industry does it much differently and deliberately distanced themselves from the word "plywood" and used "laminated wood" instead - strictly as a marketing ploy to avoid confusion. OK, that said, the words are technically interchangeable. The question, as discussed already, is "how the plys are laminated together": Are they laminated in parallal or perpendicular? Are they two layers (double top) or three (more common plywood) Is the center of a 3-ply laminate "good" wood or junk filler? Are the three layers equal thicknesses or is it a thick center with thin (veneer) outer layers?
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#14
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A good example is a recent experience I had in playing 2 attractively priced Yamaha guitars at a pawnshop. A laminate Nato B&S/solid top FG-700S. And a laminate Rosewood B&S/solid top FG-730S. Both w/similar condition strings. The only variable might be the brand of strings. The difference in tone was very apparent on these otherwise exact same design guitars. I bought the 730S. And I would encourage anyone who thinks that there's no difference to take the "Yamaha challenge" and sample these 2 models. And see if you don't hear the difference. |
#15
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While plywood may have an explicit definition, in the guitar industry I feel the term is ambiguous. Yairi guitars are entirely laminate and in an entirely different league than a $100 Epiphone or Yamaha laminate. Taylor and Yamaha's technique for building "laminate" back and sides is different than many builders as well. Maybe this is why Taylor started using the term "layered" instead of "laminate". Then again maybe it's just marking.
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Wayne J-45 song of the day archive https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ My music https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76 https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic My guitars Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine |