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Old 12-23-2014, 04:08 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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Default Zoom H6 and some addtl questions

Hello folks,

As you may know Im a hobbyist who is trying to get a grasp of recording and playing guitar. Might I add its been overwhelming at times and I have not even scratched the surfaced.

Ive been experimenting with treatment in my house and wanted a recorder to bring places as well as do quick setups in my house without dragging my laptop and Apollo twin. The apollo twin is fantastic but it requires power which is limiting.

I really like the functionality and ease of use of the H6. Plenty of inputs and its really easy to navigate. Not sure im sold on the battery life. Two mics plugged in with Phantom hour on made them very battery hungry. I do like how it mounts on a tripod. I know its mainly to put on DSLRs and miking with but my tripod makes for a very good holder hahahha.



After conversations with some people I ended up with an H6. My main worry was noise but it seems ok. There is noise in this recording but it may be a cable im tracking it down. I unplugged the fridge and took the dog collars off but there is just some things I cant get away from specially when just noodling in the after noon.

Any tips or suggestions are welcome. Setup is Neumann TLM 102 and ADK A6. I have a second TLM102 otw so ill have a pair soon. There were spaced 24 inches apart and 16 inches from the guitar. Ill post the original and my eq'd track. Im new at eqing so any suggestions are appreciated.

Raw


Edit1


setup



Anyone have any suggestions on miking drums with two mics. I can use more when I get more stands since the H6 has more inputs. Here is a take. I am not a drummer, wife bought the drumset for herself last month as she wants to learn so were learning together.

drum Track


Setup
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Old 12-23-2014, 04:29 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Hi, yeah, all these little recorders I've found tend to eat batteries faster than you'd like. The H6 seems better to me than the H4, and all of them have gotten better over time (The Roland R1 was the first of these things I ever got, and it could kill batteries in about 10 minutes). The type of battery you use can matter a lot. Surprisingly, the recharchable nicads usually last a lot longer than plain old alkaline batteries in recorders like this. I just always use mine with a power adaptor, tho, unless I'm outside with it or something. It's nice with the H6 that it's just USB power, so any iphone charger, etc, works.

Your recording is interesting, and reminds me a bit of the exercise we just went thru with Anton. For 24 inches apart, you're getting a pretty narrow sound. Also, things sound a bit distant, like you're too far away, but your getting a lot of low end boom and peaky notes like you're too close (proximity effect). My guess is that all this is due to room acoustics. You're working on room treatment? It's always hard to know when/if it's done. You might try some different locations when you record. Boomy notes can be due to room modes - resonances, and those can change just by moving a few inches or a few feet.

You didn't set your track to be downloadable, which would make it a little easier to do some further analysis.
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Old 12-23-2014, 04:38 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Hi, yeah, all these little recorders I've found tend to eat batteries faster than you'd like. The H6 seems better to me than the H4, and all of them have gotten better over time (The Roland R1 was the first of these things I ever got, and it could kill batteries in about 10 minutes). The type of battery you use can matter a lot. Surprisingly, the recharchable nicads usually last a lot longer than plain old alkaline batteries in recorders like this. I just always use mine with a power adaptor, tho, unless I'm outside with it or something. It's nice with the H6 that it's just USB power, so any iphone charger, etc, works.

Your recording is interesting, and reminds me a bit of the exercise we just went thru with Anton. For 24 inches apart, you're getting a pretty narrow sound. Also, things sound a bit distant, like you're too far away, but your getting a lot of low end boom and peaky notes like you're too close (proximity effect). My guess is that all this is due to room acoustics. You're working on room treatment? It's always hard to know when/if it's done. You might try some different locations when you record. Boomy notes can be due to room modes - resonances, and those can change just by moving a few inches or a few feet.

You didn't set your track to be downloadable, which would make it a little easier to do some further analysis.
Thanks for the response Doug. Im new to soundcloud so i didnt know how to do it.

Ive made it downloadable now.

In regards to power geez I didnt know I could just USB power it. That will be a lot easier. I still might buy some new rechargeable batts as mine are old. I know the battery life complaint is a bit nit picky considering what it has to do.

It may be booming because the guitar. Martim OM-35 its very bass heavy which probably is a poor choice for test recording but I just got it recently so were getting to know each other.

It is likely the room and im working on treatment. I made 12 broadband absorbers I can just take them off the wall and make a fort when I record in that room.

Let me know if you have issues downloading it

thanks
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:29 PM
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OK, I said it was narrow, but it's actually mono! Which may explain a lot. How did this file get created? Can you just copy the raw file from the Zoom? It should be stereo. You must be mixing it to mono somehow. I assume you're recording to stereo - by activating inputs 1 &2 as a stereo pair, right?
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:34 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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OK, I said it was narrow, but it's actually mono! Which may explain a lot. How did this file get created? Can you just copy the raw file from the Zoom? It should be stereo. You must be mixing it to mono somehow. I assume you're recording to stereo - by activating inputs 1 &2 as a stereo pair, right?
Hahahahahahahahah

What a noob I am. I was recording in stereo on the zoom. It made two files.

Im using reaper as a DAW. When i imported the track I panned 1 right and 1 left. Did I do this wrong ?
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:41 PM
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Hahahahahahahahah

What a noob I am. I was recording in stereo on the zoom. It made two files.

Im using reaper as a DAW. When i imported the track I panned 1 right and 1 left. Did I do this wrong ?
That should be fine, but somehow it's not getting panned, or it's being summed to mono on output - I don't really know Reaper, so I'm not sure what to suggest there. It's absolutely the same on both sides, so mono. If you press and hold both buttons on the zoom it will make 1 stereo track. But if somehow you've got Reaper set to output mono, that probably won't help.
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:45 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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That should be fine, but somehow it's not getting panned, or it's being summed to mono on output - I don't really know Reaper, so I'm not sure what to suggest there. It's absolutely the same on both sides, so mono. If you press and hold both buttons on the zoom it will make 1 stereo track. But if somehow you've got Reaper set to output mono, that probably won't help.
when I get back from the store i'll give it a shot in garage band too
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:05 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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Originally Posted by littlewing6283 View Post
Hahahahahahahahah

What a noob I am. I was recording in stereo on the zoom. It made two files.

Im using reaper as a DAW. When i imported the track I panned 1 right and 1 left. Did I do this wrong ?
You can link two files as a stereo pair.

Press and hold two track buttons and they'll link in stereo. Page 26 of the manual.

Also, on the subject of battery life I got over three hours with four P48 mics and the XY module all going at the same time. This was on alkaline cells. I don't know of any recorder that can come close to matching that.

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Old 12-23-2014, 07:28 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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You can link two files as a stereo pair.

Press and hold two track buttons and they'll link in stereo. Page 26 of the manual.

Also, on the subject of battery life I got over three hours with four P48 mics and the XY module all going at the same time. This was on alkaline cells. I don't know of any recorder that can come close to matching that.

Fran
thanks Fran i'll reference the manual. So if I do that it will just create one stereo file vs two mono files ?

Im sure the battery life is excellent for a recorder but generally speaking if I was just using alkalines id be burning through a lot. All is well though just came home from Costco bought some eneloop batts.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:22 PM
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Right, a single stereo file is just more convenient to work with, usually. Tho you'll still have to figure out where it's getting mono-ized in Reaper.

I just sent you the files put together as stereo, so you can get some idea what that should sound like. I applied a little multi-band compression to try to get rid of the peaky notes. Not perfect, but a bit better. Your sound's not bad, other than those notes. Pretty lively, almost sounds like reverb at times. Your levels could come up, you're at -35db (I raised the level in the file I sent you) But a decent stereo image.

I'd work with mic placement and see if you can get rid of those boomy notes. An OM shouldn't have that issue. This may seem counter-intuitive, but maybe try a little closer to the guitar. Say 24 inches apart and 10-12 inches from the guitar. That may actually get the soundhole less in the path of the mics and may boom less (hard to know tho). In general, the game with mic placement is to try stuff, over and over, and over..... changing a little at a time.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:43 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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Right, a single stereo file is just more convenient to work with, usually. Tho you'll still have to figure out where it's getting mono-ized in Reaper.

I just sent you the files put together as stereo, so you can get some idea what that should sound like. I applied a little multi-band compression to try to get rid of the peaky notes. Not perfect, but a bit better. Your sound's not bad, other than those notes. Pretty lively, almost sounds like reverb at times. Your levels could come up, you're at -35db (I raised the level in the file I sent you) But a decent stereo image.

I'd work with mic placement and see if you can get rid of those boomy notes. An OM shouldn't have that issue. This may seem counter-intuitive, but maybe try a little closer to the guitar. Say 24 inches apart and 10-12 inches from the guitar. That may actually get the soundhole less in the path of the mics and may boom less (hard to know tho). In general, the game with mic placement is to try stuff, over and over, and over..... changing a little at a time.
thanks Doug I got the file. I'll start recording in stereo in the H6.

I need to figure out how to properly convert to stereo in reaper. Any reaper experts feel free to chime in. I tried again I'll upload that in a bit.

Per my other thread. Im still trying to get levels figured out. I didnt realize I was at -35 I thought I was at -16.

I obviously have a lot to learn and I thank everyone for their patience and for answering my questions.

Doug next time the house is quiet I'll break everything out again and start playing with mic placement. Your theory makes sense on bring the mics closer as to not be in the way of the sound hole. I'll also play with distances and room location.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:37 PM
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Per my other thread. Im still trying to get levels figured out. I didnt realize I was at -35 I thought I was at -16.
I was reporting the average level. On your latest track, your peaks are -10, average is -28. That's actually not bad. Better to be a tad low and be able to bring it up than to be too hot. You could come up a few db, but it's ok as-is. You'd raise the level in mixing or mastering.
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:24 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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house is fairly quiet so gave it another shot. Recorded in stereo this time. I moved the mics a little closer per Dougs suggestion to hopefully reduce the boom. Used a different guitar as well.

Larger Room recorded w. Zoom H6, some treatment


Smaller Room no real treatment. Apollo Twin
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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OK, that's progress! You have stereo, your levels are fine - a bit hot actually, you've got a peak all the way at 0 db.

But the sound is really thin, no low end, and there's perhaps still a touch of peakedness on some bass notes, while at the same time having no bass. Weird. You have perfectly fine mics, a very nice guitar (oh, wait, what guitar did you use this time?), so I'm not sure what else could be going on. You might actually try recording with the Zoom's XY mics just as another reference, but I doubt it will fix the issue.

One thing - grasping at straws here - is that I get the impression you may be playing rather quietly. (Could be wrong). Often when we get in front of mics, we tend to sort of close down - those mics are right there, listening to everything we do, you know? Unless I'm totally wrong here, you might try playing as if you're playing to some one in the back of a big room. Not violently loud, not overly aggressive, just with authority as if you're trying to project the sound to the back of the room.
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Old 12-27-2014, 06:59 PM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
OK, that's progress! You have stereo, your levels are fine - a bit hot actually, you've got a peak all the way at 0 db.

But the sound is really thin, no low end, and there's perhaps still a touch of peakedness on some bass notes, while at the same time having no bass. Weird. You have perfectly fine mics, a very nice guitar (oh, wait, what guitar did you use this time?), so I'm not sure what else could be going on. You might actually try recording with the Zoom's XY mics just as another reference, but I doubt it will fix the issue.

One thing - grasping at straws here - is that I get the impression you may be playing rather quietly. (Could be wrong). Often when we get in front of mics, we tend to sort of close down - those mics are right there, listening to everything we do, you know? Unless I'm totally wrong here, you might try playing as if you're playing to some one in the back of a big room. Not violently loud, not overly aggressive, just with authority as if you're trying to project the sound to the back of the room.
thanks Doug


guitar is a Martin 00018GE. I think I know what the problem is. I'll re record in the small room as its quieter at this moment.

My guess is its a combo of me playing softly (you were absolutely right) and I turned the low cut on my interface, I was trying to fight the boom by using that. Sounds like it took all my low end out.

I'll re record same mic position and post w/ no eq other than boosting levels and trimming garbage off.
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