Budget Recording Chain Demo

[Doug Young]

We get frequent questions about budget recording setups. Here's a little demo of a pretty cheap recording chain that I think is effective. This was a track I recorded for Anton as we were working on his recording sound. (See his wider image thread.) Just a short late night noodle, recorded in a spare bedroom (not my treated studio), using a pair of AT2020 LD mics and a Zoom H6. Total cost of that setup would be around $600 (ignoring mic stands, mic cords). You could easily do much better - I got my mics on sale for $59 each, and I've seen them lower, and a Zoom H5 would be equivalent, and a Zoom H4n would be fine as well, so you could easily get down to about half that price.

I placed the mics 14 inches apart, and about 8 inches from the guitar. There are 2 tracks here, one is the unprocessed track out of the Zoom, except that I trimmed the beginning, trimmed and slightly faded the end, and then normalized the level to 0db peak. The 2nd track is my mix, using Logic, Ozone 6, and adding reverb. The mix involves a much more expensive set of gear of course, from computer, to studio monitors, etc, but there are cheaper alternatives to what I used here, and you could always record and send tracks to a mix/master house for finishing. Note that I'm also using a nice guitar here, a Traughott BK. In my experience, the sound you produce matters a lot more than the gear used to record.

No shootout here, just see if the sound seems acceptable for a budget and very simple (and portable) recording setup.

Here are the files on SoundCloud:

Play List - Both tracks for easy compare

Raw Un-Processed Track

Mixed Track

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

We get frequent questions about budget recording setups. Here's a little demo of a pretty cheap recording chain that I think is effective. This was a track I recorded for Anton as we were working on his recording sound. (See his wider image thread.) Just a short late night noodle, recorded in a spare bedroom (not my treated studio), using a pair of AT2020 LD mics and a Zoom H6. Total cost of that setup would be around $600 (ignoring mic stands, mic cords). You could easily do much better - I got my mics on sale for $59 each, and I've seen them lower, and a Zoom H5 would be equivalent, and a Zoom H4n would be fine as well, so you could easily get down to about half that price.

I placed the mics 14 inches apart, and about 8 inches from the guitar. There are 2 tracks here, one is the unprocessed track out of the Zoom, except that I trimmed the beginning, trimmed and slightly faded the end, and then normalized the level to 0db peak. The 2nd track is my mix, using Logic, Ozone 6, and adding reverb. The mix involves a much more expensive set of gear of course, from computer, to studio monitors, etc, but there are cheaper alternatives to what I used here, and you could always record and send tracks to a mix/master house for finishing. Note that I'm also using a nice guitar here, a Traughott BK. In my experience, the sound you produce matters a lot more than the gear used to record.

No shootout here, just see if the sound seems acceptable for a budget and very simple (and portable) recording setup.

Here are the files on SoundCloud:

Play List - Both tracks for easy compare

Raw Un-Processed Track

Mixed Track

Hey Doug just a heads up, when I click the links the mixed track is the only one that loads

Both the Playlist and the Raw track give a Soundcloud error message saying it can't find that page. ??

[philjs]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hey Doug just a heads up, when I click the links the mixed track is the only one that loads

Both the Playlist and the Raw track give a Soundcloud error message saying it can't find that page. ??

There's an "extra" http:// at the end of the link (no doubt, Doug inserted the link in the popup link box rather than replacing the pre-loaded http://) so just insert your cursor at the end and backspace to delete the "http://" at the end.

Phil

[MikeBmusic]

"Budget" means different things to different people! $600 or "half that" ($300) can be way over budget for some people.
That's why USB mics and things like a stand-alone recorder like the H2n (with no external mics) are always options.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hey Doug just a heads up, when I click the links the mixed track is the only one that loads

Both the Playlist and the Raw track give a Soundcloud error message saying it can't find that page. ??

Fixed now, thanks!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

"Budget" means different things to different people! $600 or "half that" ($300) can be way over budget for some people.
That's why USB mics and things like a stand-alone recorder like the H2n (with no external mics) are always options.

Of course! For some people $10 is over budget, for others $50K is under. Still, we get a lot of people here wanting to spend a few hundred $$, and often get told they need to spend more. I just thought some might like this data point. For example, this came out of helping Anton figure out if he needs to spend a thousand or two on better mics or if it's possible to get a decent recording with less. Since I'd recorded it for Anton, I figured I'd share. Sorry the title choice didn't work for you :-) How about "$300-600 Recording Chain Demo"?

[alohachris]

Deleted Post

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Doug,

You don't use 2020's for your recordings. No pro recording studio carries 2020's in stock. None of the best acoustic recordings I've heard in my life have used 2020's.....

Yes, most players can make decent recordings through 2020's especially if they have your knowledge & signal chain.

Yes, mic differences may be subtle - but they are not negligible differences. The cheaper mic's definitely behave (how & how much they use EQ, off-axis responses, self-noise levels, balances,) much differently than better mic's.

Ya know, it is difficult to hear differences among mic's through any online recordings. But when you compare mediocre & great mic's live through your own studio recordings through a decent signal chain, the differences are always there for me.

What's the point? To tell players to just be happy with affordable, lesser mic's when you don't use them at all? I don't get it.

alohachris

Sigh, maybe I shouldn't have posted this. Anton's been going thru an exercise to figure out how to get a decent recording. The big question he has had is "does he need to invest in more expensive mics?". Or maybe more appropriately, he's trying to decide if what he would gain from more expensive mics is worth what he'd have to pay. He has ADKs and has borrowed some nicer mics, and he knows I have the AT2020's, so he asked me to record something on them, to hear how they sound. I did, and I thought some others here who post asking if they can make acceptable recordings on something less than thousands of dollars worth of mics would find it helpful. Some may listen, and say "no way, I need something better". Others may think it sounds ok. It's a data point.

No, I don't usually use the AT's, they're my backup in case I need more mics for something. I normally use my Brauners for solo guitar. But I don't think most people want to spend $10K on mics. If it really annoys people to hear a demo of modestly priced gear, I'll take it down and just continue helping Anton offline.

So Chris, if you didn't know this recording was done on a cheap setup, would it sound OK? It's ok to say no, if it sucks, it sucks. But I'm not trying to prove any point, I'm trying to share a recording along with how it was made, for better or worse. If it's going to cause people to get riled up, I'll remove it. I thought it might be helpful, not cause a anyone to get upset.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by alohachris

What's the point? To tell players to just be happy with affordable, entry-level mic's when, once we learn the differences & how to record acoustic guitar, we won't want to use them at all? I don't get it. Please elucidate for us. alohachris

I think the point was more to show that it doesn't take a multi thousand dollar budget to make quality recordings. And to also maybe emphasize that recording technique is just as important as good gear when it comes down to it.

I could see a young person trying to realize his first solo guitar CD project using this exact equipment and then having it mastered by a decent mastering house.
If the talent was there, I would think the sound would be good enough for most ears!

[anton]

I think it sounds great. Thanks Doug for posting this. I could listen to this on an album and not think twice about it. I think alot of people could.

Chris from your past posts you like and can afford the higher end stuff. So can Doug, and other people too. But alot of us cannot, and recording studios are not cheap either. Doug just wanted to post an example of what more moderately priced gear can do. I don't think he was trying to prove any sort of point. I would have loved to buy those Gefells. Like Doug said, I was trying to figure out if what I was going to gain was worth the cost. Sure I could have emptied out my music fund, sold some extra gear, and bought the mics. But the slight improvement I heard was not worth the extra expense at this point in my life.

I hope you leave these up Doug. I think they are very useful for folks.

[alohachris]

Deleted Post

[scripsit]

Originally Posted by alohachris

What I'm puzzled by is the suggestion that most cannot hear the differences between recordings using entry-level mic's & those made using excellent microphones - all things else being equal. That has not been my experience. -alohachris-

I consider myself a discriminating music listener across a range of genres and have been trying to improve my own listening and recording technique for a couple of years now, exclusively on fingerstyle guitar. I've followed most of the samples posted here for discussion about different room noises, micing technique and equipment in that time.

I'll admit anything above 13,000 Hz is now a mystery to me, possibly a result of aging ears and possibly because of too many early years of electric guitar and loud backline amps.

I have real trouble identifying different mics, when the recording is done carefully and tastefully, as is usual with Doug's posts. This is even when the different choices are identified and I put audio through my DAW and speakers rather than the computer soundcard. I can sometimes hear differences, but certainly don't always find the expensive microphone to have the 'best' sound. And the ranking might change on a different listening day.

Blind testing, as is sometimes done on here, is even more difficult. I have got better at hearing 'noise', but usually can't distinguish room noise from microphone self noise. My shootout scores are often entirely dependent on chance, unless there is an obvious problem with the samples provided.

Not that this stops me from lusting after a pair of Gefells or other upmarket mics, but ...

Kym

[islandguitar]

Well, for my purposes, Doug, I'd ask that you keep on "keepin'" on with what you've been doing! I certainly fall in that category you describe, with maybe a little more invested than that $600 total figure you mentioned, but EVERYTHING you offer on this forum is instructive and most welcome. Often just little references you write about will open a different avenue for me to think through and perhaps walk down and try out. There's never a thread you post that doesn't get my full attention....THANK YOU!
Best,
Fred

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

AIt just struck me as a strange juxtaposition that, after creating the best sounding track we've heard him achieve on this thread using the M-300's, that the 2020 recording should arrive.

Not strange at all, it was part of the same experiment. I haven't done anything with the ATs in ages, just thought I'd share since there have been a number of posts here lately asking about lower priced mics. People have made suggestions, but there haven't been (I don't think anyway) any examples to put a sound to these budget suggestions. So here's one.

Perhaps the same music should be recorded by Anton using the 2020's & mastered by Doug & then compared here. Why not?

Well, Anton doesn't have AT2020's. He does have ADKs, and I think he plans to post those clips. If you hadn't heard the Gefell's (which is my favorite among his tracks), I think you'd also say that the latest ADK tracks are the best he's ever recorded. They're night and day compared to his first tracks with them.

PS: What I'm puzzled by is the suggestion that most cannot hear the differences between recordings using entry-level mic's & those made using excellent microphones - all things else being equal. That has not been my experience. -alohachris-

I think this is a constant source of confusion. I don't think anyone says there's no difference between mics, or guitars, or anything else - maybe someone does, I don't. The question is what sounds good to you, and how much are you willing to spend, if anything, for the difference. I've been willing to spend a lot :-) At the same time, I could make music with less.

My general philosophy is to share information, and I prefer to do it with demos, so you can listen and decide for yourself. I don't think it's very useful for me to just tell you what I think. I want to just show you and you can decide. I've done reviews for AG of $8000 guitars and $800. I'm not going to tell you the $8k is better, or that the $800 is better. I describe the instruments, and then let you hear them. I've done the same here for ages with recording stuff. I posted 3 demos with my Brauners and higher end chain last week. Here I shared a recording made with modest gear. If my demo proves how much better the high end gear is, then great, maybe I've helped confirm that for you.

What I'd *love* to hear is some recordings from you, Chris. You have been generous with your verbal advice to people about the importance of fine gear, and you describe significant differences in all kinds of gear. Unfortunately, most people here don't have the opportunity to AB all these different mics, so the words are pretty meaningless. Post some examples, educate us about the differences, and demonstrate why a track recorded with modest gear is so inferior by showing us how great a recording with good gear can be.

Just to re-iterate, this discussion is not what I expected when I posted this. We discuss gear in this price range all the time, so I don't think this setup is either too expensive share or too cheap to share. I think it's an example of a modest signal chain, which you can listen to and take into consideration (for good or bad) when looking at gear to get yourself. I hope it's useful to someone....

[RedJoker]

This is fantastic. As a beginner player and recorder, everything I do pretty much sucks. However, I hear recordings like this and I realize that I can vastly improve both playing and recording with practice. Others may not be satisfied with this quality but I would be THRILLED if I could achieve this in my spare bedroom.

Thanks Doug!