The new Genzler Acoustic Array

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by troggg

True, but the bigger the speaker the greater the odds vocals don't sound like "you're singing through a guitar amp." As previously noted, I'd expect your amp with the 12" speaker to have a fighting chance at handling vocals well. The exception would be totally different designs like the Bose L series which have multiple small speakers. I took a quick look at Genzler specs and didn't notice a speaker size. Did I miss something?

It's got a 10" woofer and a little "array" of 4 2.5" drivers. I think there's a good chance it will handle vocals well, but of course the proof is where the proverb says it is.....

Louis

[jseth]

Originally Posted by troggg

Obviously you can plug a vocal mic into it but notice the videos don't have anyone singing through them. What does that tell you? Also, are you primarily a guitarist or are you a singer songwriter? Do you love what the AER Compact 60 does for voices? Just curious.

If I had to say, I'd say I was a singer who plays the guitar... yes, a singer/songwriter, but a singer of songs, first and foremost. To that point, I have been continually AMAZED at how great a job that little AER does on vocals!

Every time I play out through it, I find myself wondering "how in the world can ONE 8" speaker and 60 solid state watts produce this much wonderful sound?!" I find that the optimum placement of the AER is 10-15' away from me; the distance helps cut down on any unwanted low-end feedback from my guitar, but, more importantly, the AER Compact "blooms" out around 10' from the unit. At that point, the sound spreads wonderfully through the performing space, in a manner quite similar to my Bose L1 system. Not as good, certainly, but for the size/weight of the amp, it's a dynamite package. I frequently use my little Bose T1 mixer-thingie as a front end with the AER.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by jseth

If I had to say, I'd say I was a singer who plays the guitar... yes, a singer/songwriter, but a singer of songs, first and foremost. To that point, I have been continually AMAZED at how great a job that little AER does on vocals!

Every time I play out through it, I find myself wondering "how in the world can ONE 8" speaker and 60 solid state watts produce this much wonderful sound?!" I find that the optimum placement of the AER is 10-15' away from me; the distance helps cut down on any unwanted low-end feedback from my guitar, but, more importantly, the AER Compact "blooms" out around 10' from the unit. At that point, the sound spreads wonderfully through the performing space, in a manner quite similar to my Bose L1 system. Not as good, certainly, but for the size/weight of the amp, it's a dynamite package. I frequently use my little Bose T1 mixer-thingie as a front end with the AER.

Fair enough.

[Vancebo]

Looks like a nice unit. I think the Dumb Knob (contour)
May be benificial for some. I also think that the Separate xlr outputs are a winner. That way you can send a flat signal to the house. I liked how the Fishman amps always had that feature.

JSeth, let me know when he gets one in. I would come over and check it out.

[KevWind]

Always interested in new PA systems for use with acoustic guitar (and in my case vocals)

This thread caused me to got to the Genzler web sight to check it out.

Couple thoughts and observations a bit OT But First they should probably get whomever is managing their web sight to make a couple of consistency and clarity or typo changes
First is the weight ? the text and video say 27 lbs
but the "Additional Information" tab says 35 lbs.
On that same tab the Dimensions 19 x 18 x 22 in

Under the "Specifications"
Dimensions: 16.75”H X 15.75”W X 13.75”D
With the weight at 27 lbs

Under shipping info it says
SHIPPING DATA:

Dimensions: 19.5”L x 17.5”D x 22”H (49.53 cm L x 44.45 cm D x 55.88 cm H)
Weight: 34 LBS (15.42 Kg)

I believe I sussed it out but it is confusing at first.


Now the important stuff
Form pursuing the sight It appears that they may have taken their "Bass Aray 10" cabinet and put an amp into it. So I am guessing that is the Extension cab mentioned in spec for the jump to 300 watts.

Then the big question for me is vocals. All else being equal if the frequency response is indeed flat before the EQ section then there is no reason to think it would not also be fine for vocals. The frequencies that the EQ is stated to be operating at, appear to be in the ranges that will work well for vocals (depending on the actual Q range for high frequency especially)

It is a bit curious that given the intended target market where vocals are as much, if not more the norm, they have not yet put out a demo with vocal

[troggg]

"Building upon our heritage in innovative acoustic amplification design and build, the Acoustic Array™ PRO brings a fresh, advanced approach to acoustic amplification."

I would take them at their word. If the intended use was for guitar and vocals equally, wouldn't you think words like "vocals" or "singing" would also appear in that mission statement?

Of course, it's not like there's something inherently wrong with focusing on guitar sounds.

And vocal sounds not quite convincing for ultra-compulsives are still more often than not perfectly acceptable to often inebriated audience members.

[TubeG]

Originally Posted by lschwart

It's got a 10" woofer and a little "array" of 4 2.5" drivers. I think there's a good chance it will handle vocals well, but of course the proof is where the proverb says it is.....

Louis

4 x 2.5" = lots of Mid for vocal. Guess will have to wait for further reviews.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by troggg

"
I would take them at their word. If the intended use was for guitar and vocals equally, wouldn't you think words like "vocals" or "singing" would also appear in that mission statement?

Well, they don't mention "guitar" in that sentence, either. Acoustic reproduction has to do with amplification without coloration (unless wants to use EQ and FX to that end) and IMO, there is no more acoustic instrument than the human voice. I agree that those midrange speakers could be ideal for vocals.

And vocal sounds not quite convincing for ultra-compulsives are still more often than not perfectly acceptable to often inebriated audience members.

If that's your audience .... but I think the church musicians might take issue.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by troggg

"Building upon our heritage in innovative acoustic amplification design and build, the Acoustic Array™ PRO brings a fresh, advanced approach to acoustic amplification."

I would take them at their word. If the intended use was for guitar and vocals equally, wouldn't you think words like "vocals" or "singing" would also appear in that mission statement?

Of course, it's not like there's something inherently wrong with focusing on guitar sounds.

And vocal sounds not quite convincing for ultra-compulsives are still more often than not perfectly acceptable to often inebriated audience members.

Given that the text says "Acoustic Instrument" and as you say lacks any mention of vocals that one could reasonably assume they are meaning acoustic guitar.

As I mentioned if it has a flat response before EQ ( arguably desirable for acoustic guitar as well as vocal) then it could be very suitable for both, time will tell.

As far as what is "acceptable to an audience
In my experience (tanked or sober) given the fact that any audience (with the possible exception of an audience of AGF'ers ) will have a lifetime of experience with the human voice vs. a much more limited experience with acoustic guitar such that. Where say a basic guitar strumming performance with mediocre sound (and or even including that dreaded Piezo Quack sound) with an engaging vocal is almost alway completely acceptable and can keep an audience engaged and present. Where a mediocre vocal can often lose audience interest and even clear a room in relatively short period of time .

[troggg]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Well, they don't mention "guitar" in that sentence, either.


If that's your audience .... but I think the church musicians might take issue.

1) Well there's no "Acoustic Voice Forum" now is there?
2) You got me on that one. I only wish I could play for non-inebriated audiences!

[troggg]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Given that the text says "Acoustic Instrument" and as you say lacks any mention of vocals that one could reasonably assume they are meaning acoustic guitar.

As I mentioned if it has a flat response before EQ ( arguably desirable for acoustic guitar as well as vocal) then it could be very suitable for both, time will tell.

As far as what is "acceptable to an audience
In my experience (tanked or sober) given the fact that any audience (with the possible exception of an audience of AGF'ers ) will have a lifetime of experience with the human voice vs. a much more limited experience with acoustic guitar such that. Where say a basic guitar strumming performance with mediocre sound (and or even including that dreaded Piezo Quack sound) with an engaging vocal is almost alway completely acceptable and can keep an audience engaged and present. Where a mediocre vocal can often lose audience interest and even clear a room in relatively short period of time .

Good points.

[RustyAxe]

I emailed them and got this reply from Jeff Genzler:

Hello Denny,

Thank you for reaching out and yes I have been remiss in not jumping on the AG forum. I'll try to do that ASAP.

But to your question about the AA-PRO and it's vocal capabilities. During our testing of the proto-types we found that the speaker system design is superb for vocal reproduction and it is specifically how well the Array speakers reproduce those frequencies so important to the vocal range. On top of that is the dispersion characteristics of the design that really presents the vocals throughout your average venue for this type of product.

It is certainly the singer/guitarists essential combo. And we offer a stand adaptor in the bottom so you can place it on a short speaker stand for even better projection.
Where are you located so I can see if there might be a dealer in the area that may have interest in the product.

So far the response for this combo has been excellent.

Please let me know if you have any more questions.

Best Regards,

Jeff

Unfortunately, no dealers in my area are carrying this. I hope I get a chance to hear one soon.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

I emailed them and got this reply from Jeff Genzler:



Unfortunately, no dealers in my area are carrying this. I hope I get a chance to hear one soon.

Thanks for doing that, very interesting, guess I will put it on the short list

[troggg]

Hmm. It's not like I get a great kick out of playing devil's advocate, but I have to wonder why the "superb" vocal capabilities weren't demonstrated on company videos or mentioned on the company website? Generally superb capabilities are played up, not played down. For example, I don't generally leave superb songs off CDs.

Yeah, it's not easy to demo this class of amps even in big cities. Retail shops seem to stock up on the sure-thing low and mid priced amps rather than take a chance on lesser known and higher priced brands.

[Chriscom]

Thanks for adding this info from Genzler.

For those of you in the Washington DC area, there's a store called Chuck Levin's in Wheaton, Md just outside the beltway that sells Genzler equipment, though I haven't called yet to see if they have this unit. The specs they have online seemed a little more detailed than what I saw in the Genzler site; e.g. it says the "mic and instrument channels" (XLR and 1/4 inch) can be used simultaneously, one of the nice features of the late lamented Carvin AG200/300. I imagine the sound could get a little crowded in there, but it's great to have that as an option.