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  #16  
Old 09-18-2014, 05:48 PM
flaggerphil flaggerphil is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary-N-LA View Post
I'm mulling a custom build or buying an existing (new or used) Santa Cruz OM Short Scale. Can anyone tell me what difference exactly adirondack braces and hot hide glue would make to the sound and performance of a short-scale OM?
Nope, not me.

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  #17  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:02 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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I have used red spruce bracing since the early-1990's, and I can't tell much difference between it and Sitka. On average, red spruce is the same density as Sitka, and only slightly stiffer.
I do like carving red spruce, and I have a much bigger pile to select from than the other bracing woods.
Quote:
If the Adirondack braces can be made lighter weight than Sitka braces yet have equivalent strength I could see some difference in sound due to that.
The way to make a brace that is both light and stiff is to use the least dense material and make it a bit taller.
If you are restricted to using spruce, that is best accomplished not with Sitka or red, but with Euro spruce or Engelmann.
As far as using hide glue instead of Titebond, I notice the most impact when using it to glue the bridge on. The bracing.....not so much.
Hide glue gives a crisper sound that is most noticeable immediately after the glue sets. Titebond can take weeks to have the sound return to where it was before.
Quote:
Also makes neck and bridge removal much easier too.
After doing repairs for 30+ years, I notice very little difference in removing a bridge or a neck with hot hide glue versus Titebond. Either one will come loose with heat or steam. Bracing is a different story. It is very hard to heat a spruce-to-spruce glue joint enough to loosen it.
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:09 PM
JeremiahB. JeremiahB. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
I have used red spruce bracing since the early-1990's, and I can't tell much difference between it and Sitka. On average, red spruce is the same density as Sitka, and only slightly stiffer.
I do like carving red spruce, and I have a much bigger pile to select from than the other bracing woods.

The way to make a brace that is both light and stiff is to use the least dense material and make it a bit taller.
If you are restricted to using spruce, that is best accomplished not with Sitka or red, but with Euro spruce or Engelmann.
As far as using hide glue instead of Titebond, I notice the most impact when using it to glue the bridge on. The bracing.....not so much.
Hide glue gives a crisper sound that is most noticeable immediately after the glue sets. Titebond can take weeks to have the sound return to where it was before.

After doing repairs for 30+ years, I notice very little difference in removing a bridge or a neck with hot hide glue versus Titebond. Either one will come loose with heat or steam. Bracing is a different story. It is very hard to heat a spruce-to-spruce glue joint enough to loosen it.
Believe me, listen to John and not me. He knows what he's talking about. I didn't realize Titebond would release that easily. I know you don't remember, but I'd posted some pics (can't remember which forum) of some 2 x 6's I'd found in a Lowe's that I was convinced was some sort of spruce and was perfectly quartered and you identified them as englemann. I still haven't built with them yet (still have plenty of red) but they ring like a bell when you rap them with your knuckle.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:14 PM
Tone Wood Tone Wood is offline
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Take this with a grain of salt, but the explination I was given was the hot hide glue sets harder and is better and transferring vibrations that regular glue.

I don't know how much truth is in that, it's just what i've been told.
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:28 PM
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If I had to choose between those, I'd much rather pay extra for hot hide glue. I firmly believe it makes a positive difference in tone. I hear a quicker, more snappy response in otherwise similar guitars. I don't believe red spruce braces are that superior to Sitka for the reasons John has described.

Like anything else, no one thing will make or break a guitar, but I do like hide glue. It was never my goal, but as I look around at the guitars I've owned, sold, and kept, I see more hide glue guitars making my personal cut.

For whatever reason, this can be a divisive topic, so I will not debate or defend my stance. It's simply what I've observed and what I prefer.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:39 PM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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...you can find lots of discussion on this topic with very little or no consensus...as far as Santa Cruz's go...I"ve had 5 and the one that I have now which is constructed with hhg and adi braces is the most responsive and resonant of the ones I've owned...
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adirondack braces, hot hide glue, santa cruz

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