Mixing Multi Mic'd Fingerstyle Guitar

[cyacoub]

I have recorded a fingerstyle guitar track using 4 mics plus the pickup for a total of 5 tracks. The mics are setup as a spaced pair of small diaphragm condensers, a LDC on the lower body, and a tube LDC at the waist above the soundhole. Now that I have the tracks, I am a bit overwhelmed what to do with them. I assume I simply pan the two SDC's hard left and right, but where do I place the others in the stereo mix?

Also, I have read a lot of great posts on here about how to EQ, and process acoustic guitar, but do I apply EQ, compression, reverb, delay to each individual track, or do I bus these all together and processes the combined bus?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Once I get a rough mix, I'll try to post the results to get some feedback on how I can make it better.

Guitar: Baranik Meridian
DAW: Sonar
Mics: 2 x Miktec C5 SDC, U87 LDC (Clone), C12 Tube LDC (Clone)
Pre: UA 2-110, Focusrite Isa two

Thanks,

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by cyacoub

I have recorded a fingerstyle guitar track using 4 mics plus the pickup for a total of 5 tracks. The mics are setup as a spaced pair of small diaphragm condensers, a LDC on the lower body, and a tube LDC at the waist above the soundhole. Now that I have the tracks, I am a bit overwhelmed what to do with them. I assume I simply pan the two SDC's hard left and right, but where do I place the others in the stereo mix?

Also, I have read a lot of great posts on here about how to EQ, and process acoustic guitar, but do I apply EQ, compression, reverb, delay to each individual track, or do I bus these all together and processes the combined bus?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Once I get a rough mix, I'll try to post the results to get some feedback on how I can make it better.

Guitar: Baranik Meridian
DAW: Sonar
Mics: 2 x Miktec C5 SDC, U87 LDC (Clone), C12 Tube LDC (Clone)
Pre: UA 2-110, Focusrite Isa two

Thanks,

There really is no specific "you should do this" But what I would probably do is first off organize the tracks I would starting from the left side of the mixer with spaced first and probably yes panned hard 100% left and right and for now you just put one LDC track panned 50% left and the other 50% right
Then the perhaps the picup center

I would start with the spaced pair L&R tracks first , get the levels matched (if they are not already) then I would group them for solo, level and mute

Then try to get the other mics and picup tracks each matched separately in level, to the combined spaced pair level, by soloing the pair then mute then solo the single, back and forth to try to get them as close to the same level by ear

Yes I would put a multiband parametric EQ and comp on each track. I would start with rolling off the low end with a high pass filter option (if the EQ has it), and cut from say 60 hz to 80hz and down

I would sweep , locate, then narrow Q cut the problem frequencies from each mic track


The next step is try to decide if you really need or want all 5 tracks by conducting a series of A/B tests make sure the the other mic and or picup is adding to the over quality as opposed to just adding more noise

Then you can begin to see if the tracks you want to use sound like one instrument nicely spread over the stereo field or it it sounds like multiple guitars at different points across the stereo field . The former may then just need a bit more eq and or slight compression (or not) the latter probably means you may want to consider loosing some of the tracks

That should get ya started

[Mr. Jelly]

My $.02. The first thing I would do is decide if I want to use all the tracks. Pick the best one or two tracks and work those. You have to ask yourself why do you want to use all that. If you don't come up with a good answer then maybe you shouldn't. But ... there's always a but. You may want to to bring in a touch of one of the discarded tracks later after you've worked the good ones to round out the sound in some way. Really the best way to do this is to get the best sound you can before rolling tape. Then don't screw up what you got just try to make it better. If you can't make it better then live with it. You can't make it good after it's recorded.

[cyacoub]

Thank you both for the help. I made a first pass using your advice as a starting point, and while I'm sure there is lots of room to improve, it's certainly much better then my earlier attempts. Here is what I came up with. I recorded a cover so that I would have a baseline. Any feedback, or suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F...ew?usp=sharing

[rick-slo]

Why five mikes? You are better off with two mikes, or two mikes plus the pickup. Recording solo guitar with additional mikes is pretty unusual,
and if used should bring something additional to the game, such as far away mikes to bring in some room ambience (assuming the room acoustics
are very good).

Anyway, start off with full right and full left on the mikes, pickup center. Make volume adjustments on the different mikes, or eliminate them some
of them.

The recording you posted is pretty good but a little boxy and boomy - could use more a more open, airy, sound and more clarity on the transients

[Doug Young]

Your recording sounds massively compressed. it might be more interesting to hear it less processed.

I usually use a "4" mic setup these days, actually a spaced pair plus an MS stereo ribbon in the middle. This gives me lots of options. I can choose either pair, depending on what I like for a track, or I can blend them in all kinds of ways. I can just use the Mid channel of the ribbon to fill in the middle and fatten things up. Or I can use the MS pair as the base, and just mix in a little spaced condensers to add brightness and space, or start with the spaced pair and bring in a little stereo ribbon. It's just a matter of having choices.

[cyacoub]

Thanks for all the help from everyone. I went back to the drawing board and stripped out 2 of the tracks that seemed to only make it louder, but not sound better. So now I have a spaced pair of small condensers, and 1 large condenser in center above sound hole.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Your recording sounds massively compressed. it might be more interesting to hear it less processed.

I posted a new version which is the same as before only all processing turned off (including EQ), and as above, I muted the pickup and 1 additional mic. Please let me know what you think. I thought I liked the first version I posted, but after listening a few more times I completely agree with all the feedback I received about it sounding compressed, and boomy. Now I just don't know how to make it sound the way I imagine in my head.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F...ew?usp=sharing

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by cyacoub

I posted a new version which is the same as before only all processing turned off (including EQ), and as above, I muted the pickup and 1 additional mic. Please let me know what you think. I thought I liked the first version I posted, but after listening a few more times I completely agree with all the feedback I received about it sounding compressed, and boomy. Now I just don't know how to make it sound the way I imagine in my head.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F...ew?usp=sharing

Sound is congested, compressed, and distorted in places.
My guesses are:
1. recorded too hot, and then limiter inserted (about -1.7dB under max), yet distortion anyway.
2. still sounds compressed, about 12 or 13 dB range
3. recorded too close - boomy proximity effects
4. sounds panned in from full right and full left (or maybe it just that third central mike

I suggest lowering recording level, mic'ing further out, foregoing compression and limiting, record with two mikes (or two mikes plus the pickup), not panning mikes towards center, wearing headphones and listening while setting up mike positions.

[cyacoub]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Sound is congested, compressed, and distorted in places.

I agree with you, but it's strange as I have no compression or limiting turned on. Could it just be the result of recording too hot, and having mics too close (about 8" from guitar)? Also, I had the 2 spaced pair mics panned hard left/right, and the center mic dead center, so again I don't know what would be causing the weird panning you are picking up.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I suggest lowering recording level, mic'ing further out, foregoing compression and limiting, record with two mikes (or two mikes plus the pickup), not panning mikes towards center, wearing headphones and listening while setting up mike positions.

I'll try to do another recording tonight with the levels dropped, and the mics further away. And post the results with no processing or compression. I did spend quite a bit of time with headphones on trying to find the best spots for the mics on the last recording. I was using the middle mic instead of the pickup as I am not a big fan of the pickup sound. I have the Feather pickup installed, which sounds great, but still nowhere near as natural as a mic.

[rick-slo]

One possible starting point:

Try a pair of mikes out about 18 to 20 inches out and about 16 to 18 inches apart, height around level of sound hole or a little above, mike to your left pointing towards bridge, mike to your right pointing to neck body joint. With headphones on and listening play with the guitar pointing straight and experiment with guitar turned a little left or a little right for the best sound (best balance and clarity). Keep peak volume no higher than 12 to 14 dBs below max (you can always boost volume post recording).

[Doug Young]

As Rick says, something seems overdriven, either the mics themselves, or the recorder. The sound is also rather muddy, which could be from your mixing the 3rd mic in - phase cancelation. I'm probably slower than some to figure things out, but it took me years of trying to use more than two mics to get anything that sounded good, and even now, when I mostly have it worked out, I often end up just using a pair, when mixing in a third or 4th just mucks things up. More isn't always better. I'd second Rick's suggestion, but it'd also be interesting to hear this last track without the middle mic.

[gfsark]

Your second try was vastly improved. The first sample seemed like the reverb was turned on way too high. The sound was very echo-y. I know nothing about recording, so couldn't comment on anything but what it sounded like to me.

[cyacoub]

Ok. You guys appear to be on to something. Here is the same recording with only the spaced pair (no processing). to my ears it is still overdriven (likely recorded too hot), and a bit boomy (mics too close?), but it sounds dramatically better to my ears. Let me know what you think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F...ew?usp=sharing

I have to admit I am a bit disappointed as I fell for the more must be better approach, and got all these different mics thinking I would get a bigger richer sound with more mics!


I also did a very quick retake last night of a few bars following some of Rick's suggestions. I used only 2 SDC spaced pair mics, and put them about 13" from guitar. I dropped the signal down to when recording, and again turned off all processing. I'd appreciate any of your thoughts, and what version you like better, and any further suggestions to get e closer to a good sounding approach.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F...ew?usp=sharing

[Dan Lampton]

I've enjoyed hearing your process. Your latest example sounds much more clear and natural than your early attempts.

BTW, nice playing and nice guitar. Is this the Baranik?

[cyacoub]

Originally Posted by Dan Lampton

I've enjoyed hearing your process. Your latest example sounds much more clear and natural than your early attempts.

BTW, nice playing and nice guitar. Is this the Baranik?

Thanks Dan. I'm thankful for all the help from the people on AGF as it has made the learning process pretty fun. Otherwise this could have been very frustrating if I had to try and figure it out on my own. Likely I would have just given up and conceded that if I wanted to record something decently, I would have to go to a studio.

This is the Baranik. I am so pleased with this guitar. It is really starting to open up the more I play it. Bad part is that I like it a little too much. I started talking to Mike at SBAIC about building another one